Cease Fire to Fry Sauce (edit)

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 3:52 PM, SharkTanked said:

They are who we thought they were.

Russia going to Russia.  Foreign troops in Russia don't have a good time since the Mongol empire collapsed.

The infuriating part is they could have escaped if Zelensky called for their retreat weeks ago, or at least had a much easier time of it.  But he wouldn't do it even after it was obvious the offensive was a lost cause as far back as early January.

It's almost like a Comedian/Actor might not be a great military strategist and should have listened to his generals.  Crazy I know.

 

 

[tailingpermit]

On 3/13/2025 at 5:47 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Well, my hopes that a peace deal would allow the Kursk troops to retreat safely appears to have been the hopes a fool.  Russia won't entertain any cease fire until they have been routed and massacred it appears.  

Russia looks to continue their centuries long tradition of doing what they do to troops that enter and forcibly occupy Russian land.

Only after they have made a brutal statement will they entertain a cease fire.

Going to be a long few days for those poor men.

 

 

The pot obviously needs sweetening, Vlad has those soldiers right where he wants them. 

[tailingpermit]

On 3/13/2025 at 5:58 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Russia going to Russia.  Foreign troops in Russia don't have a good time since the Mongol empire collapsed.

The infuriating part is they could have escaped if Zelensky called for their retreat weeks ago, or at least had a much easier time of it.  But he wouldn't do it even after it was obvious the offensive was a lost cause as far back as early January.

It's almost like a Comedian/Actor might not be a great military strategist and should have listened to his generals.  Crazy I know.

 

 

Zelensky should turn himself over to Russian forces to save 10k soldiers, now that would be heroic!

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 3:58 PM, tailingpermit said:

The pot obviously needs sweetening, Vlad has those soldiers right where he wants them. 

If Trump can even just help negotiate a safe retreat...but I doubt it.  Russia will want to do what Russia does to armies that invade them.

Time for Zelensky to step down.

He is not a fit military leader.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 4:00 PM, tailingpermit said:

Zelensky should turn himself over to Russian forces to save 10k soldiers, now that would be heroic!

If Trump and Starmer can negotiate their retreat the will be heroes.  

Long shot.

[AlpineSummer]

If only we had a president who was actually tough on RU. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 4:33 PM, AlpineSummer said:

If only we had a president who was actually tough on RU. 

The retreat from Kursk will take several days or more.

I have not lost total hope these soldiers can escape without massive casualties.

But...it looks grim

 

[The San Diegan]

On 3/13/2025 at 2:26 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

@The San Diegan this highlights what I was saying regarding the North Korean troops.  In short order they went from a liability, to a force of nature.  They are all elite athletes (the best North Korea has, getting the best food, nutrition, training...their elite "show" troops)  and incredibly proficient with their weapons.  And they are so radicalized that they don't understand fear or surrender. 

The major risk now is is the collapse in Kursk will serve as a launching point into the Sumy region and more of the North East.  Part of what the offensive was hoping to prevent.

I am less likely to believe a cease fire happens.  What's in it for Russia?  They have all the momentum right now.

If it DOES though that will buy critical time to reinforce the Sumy border.

Please, please, please let this happen.  FUCK.  

A ceasefire without conditions allows RU to consolidate their gains and prepare for renewed offensives. So IMO Putin has an incentive to see it happen; he just wants to regain Kursk first.

However, I cannot stress enough the role in our pause in intelligence sharing had in enabling the recent successes of the RU offensive in Kursk. Ukrainian press has reported on how the cessation of realtime intelligence resulted in their reliance on their own domestic reconnaissance and allowed RU forces to seize momentum. Had we not stopped sharing realtime intelligence with our allies, they would not be staging a rearguard action in Kursk right now.

[son of a gun]

On 3/13/2025 at 4:26 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

@The San Diegan this highlights what I was saying regarding the North Korean troops.  In short order they went from a liability, to a force of nature.  They are all elite athletes (the best North Korea has, getting the best food, nutrition, training...their elite "show" troops)  and incredibly proficient with their weapons.  And they are so radicalized that they don't understand fear or surrender. 

The major risk now is is the collapse in Kursk will serve as a launching point into the Sumy region and more of the North East.  Part of what the offensive was hoping to prevent.

I am less likely to believe a cease fire happens.  What's in it for Russia?  They have all the momentum right now.

If it DOES though that will buy critical time to reinforce the Sumy border.

Please, please, please let this happen.  FUCK.  

I don't think they know "surrender" is even an option. As for fear, well, there are plenty of videos showing the North Koreans terrified of drones, especially just before the drone goes "BOOM!"

..... Believe it or not, those are on youtube. Don't ask me how they haven't been taken down, because I have no idea.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 7:06 PM, The San Diegan said:

A ceasefire without conditions allows RU to consolidate their gains and prepare for renewed offensives. So IMO Putin has an incentive to see it happen; he just wants to regain Kursk first.

However, I cannot stress enough the role in our pause in intelligence sharing had in enabling the recent successes of the RU offensive in Kursk. Ukrainian press has reported on how the cessation of realtime intelligence resulted in their reliance on their own domestic reconnaissance and allowed RU forces to seize momentum. Had we not stopped sharing realtime intelligence with our allies, they would not be staging a rearguard action in Kursk right now.

No, you can stress it enough.

And you have.

The position started to collapse in January.  This is not up for debate.  There is no back and forth here.  3 days of lack of offensive intelligence sharing made little difference.  Very little.

So little that OISNT analysts can not say it mad any. It didn't help but there is no certainty that it hurt.  It was 3 days.  They can not confirm or make an analysis it would have made any god damn difference.

You do not know what you are talking about.  Their position was collapsing at a radical rate well prior and the acceleration of those three days...graphs right at where it would have.

Their position collapsed because they did not have the men.

The Russians made it asymmetrical when their fiber controlled drones not able to be jammed just fucked them the fuck up.  And then North Koreans most elite soldiers, fed and bred from birth, fucking went super soldier

The position started collapsing in early January.  In the 3 day pause they gained 27 out of 500 square miles.  Huge.  But it was on the trajectory.

Again nobody is willing to say it directly impacted the trajectory...because they can not say that.  Because the offensive was collapsing at such a rapid rate PRIOR to it

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 7:11 PM, son of a gun said:

I don't think they know "surrender" is even an option. As for fear, well, there are plenty of videos showing the North Koreans terrified of drones, especially just before the drone goes "BOOM!"

..... Believe it or not, those are on youtube. Don't ask me how they haven't been taken down, because I have no idea.

And?  Every single report is that these North Korean troops are the whole reason the offensive collapsed.

Yeah, you and I might be scared if we heard a big boom too.

Believe it or not, these are the reports from the front lines.

The Kursk offensive is and always was going to be a fucking disaster.

Yeah...invading Russia is a good idea...FFS

[Cowboy Up]

On 3/13/2025 at 3:24 PM, tailingpermit said:

Thankfully his college trophy case is filled with more than potato bowl trophies. 

Meh… good for him. We’ll see how he does in the show.  Honestly I hope he does well

[Akkula]

On 3/13/2025 at 7:19 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

And?  Every single report is that these North Korean troops are the whole reason the offensive collapsed.

Yeah, you and I might be scared if we heard a big boom too.

Believe it or not, these are the reports from the front lines.

The Kursk offensive is and always was going to be a fucking disaster.

Yeah...invading Russia is a good idea...FFS

I am not sure if you repeat more Putin or Trump propganda at this point.  What the hell happened to you?

[son of a gun]

On 3/13/2025 at 8:19 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

And?  Every single report is that these North Korean troops are the whole reason the offensive collapsed.

Yeah, you and I might be scared if we heard a big boom too.

Believe it or not, these are the reports from the front lines.

The Kursk offensive is and always was going to be a fucking disaster.

Yeah...invading Russia is a good idea...FFS

Hey, I'm not the one who put "fearless" in the post I quoted.

And invading Kursk actually did draw quite a few forces from the Eastern Front. Which I believe was the point; to give that front a reprieve. Falling back to Ukraine's borders though, yeah. That should have happened sooner.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 9:21 PM, son of a gun said:

Hey, I'm not the one who put "fearless" in the post I quoted.

And invading Kursk actually did draw quite a few forces from the Eastern Front. Which I believe was the point; to give that front a reprieve. Falling back to Ukraine's borders though, yeah. That should have happened sooner.

Ok, you are reporting old shit.  I said that when the troops arrived they were a liability.  It was brand new.  The sudden big booms did startle them.  They have settled in now

They have quickly adapted and overwhelmed the Ukrainian position.

The fact the AP is reporting the commanders are "mixed" in if it was worth it is telling....since those who express it was not are committing a crime that could send them to prison.

My fearless point comes from the direct front lines that the North Koreans troops on the few chances they have been able to be surrounded...they show more resolve than the Russian troops in similar positions.

Maybe fearless is not the right word. Maybe indoctrinated.  Or maybe the fear they have of their families back home being killed gives them that resolve.

And yes, They should have been ordered to retreat weeks ago.  But Zelensky does not care about the troops fighting.  He cared more about preserving his position to get the most aid possible and fuck the troops.  A retreat might have meant he could have a weaker position to ask for more and more and more.

Yes, they should have retreated weeks ago.  Glad we agree on that.

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 3/13/2025 at 7:32 PM, Akkula said:

I am not sure if you repeat more Putin or Trump propganda at this point.  What the hell happened to you?

Oh shut up with the fucking "former of his self" shit attacking me.

I'm tired of it.

The facts are not propaganda.  The facts are right now these troops have to make a hellish escape that many will not survive, many will be captured and tortured for years...and it didn't need to happen.

Zelensky could have ordered a strategic withdrawal when it became apparent his offensive was doomed.

He refused so he could angle for more money.

Now 10k (much less now according to reports of the piles of dead bodies) have to make a bloody retreat in an unorganized manner.

Fuck Zelensky

[halfmanhalfbronco]

Zelensky did not order the retreat from Kursk in early January when it was apparent they would be routed.

This is a fact and not up for debate.  He did not order their retreat, and it was made apparent in early January the position could not be held.

Again, this is NOT UP FOR DEBATE THESE ARE FACTS.

So now let us get into the why?  Why did he not try and save their lives?  The following are not facts but...uhhhhm....close to them.

Zelensky thought it would  decentivize the billions coming into his country.  And his now very rich friends can not have that!!!  That money needs to keep dumping in, man!!!!

So instead of extracting his troops he strung them along to get those dolla dolla billllls yallll!!!!

Fuck him.

Every drone hunting down some poor Ukrainian 50 year old man running along the tree lines.  Every shell dropped on the road.

That is allllll on Big Z and his fucking god damn ego and refusal to allow his men to come home

Fuck him to fucking hell

He just wanted money for his friends...fuck these old exhausted men...

Fuck Zelensky...

He is no hero...you are all just really fucking...aaaarrrhhhh

[halfmanhalfbronco]

Admitting it is a loss and they need to retreat would have fucked up his demands for military aid.  He could not admit it was a failure.  Doing so would have maybe slowed down the money coming in....

How can you not all fucking see that

[CPslograd]

On 3/13/2025 at 8:53 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Admitting it is a loss and they need to retreat would have fucked up his demands for military aid.  He could not admit it was a failure.  Doing so would have maybe slowed down the money coming in....

How can you not all fucking see that

Personally I think the Kursk offensive made sense in the beginning, but it appears that Zelensky overcommited to it and now is looking at a serious setback with terrible losses.

That said, Im a window salesman in the San Joaquin Valley, and my opinion on the matter isn't really worth that much.  Plus this is a sports message board, it really doesn't matter what we type.

Remember it's just an outlet, and a place to essentially text acquantenances, the second it gets you angry or upset, it's time to log off and go for a walk or watch a movie.

I'm not trying to show you up or be a dick, as a friend I'm just trying to remind you, not to take any of this seriously.   All of us regulars get overly invested sometimes, but the less, the better.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

So, again WHY THE FUCK WERE THESE SOLDIERS STILL HERE??!?

ZELENSKY FUCKING KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO BE FUCKING MASSACRED IF HE KEPT THEM THERE!!!

Why?!?!  What was the fucking purpose?!?!?!

Why were they still here today?!?!

When everyone and their god damn fucking dog knew the position was not tenable.  WHY ARE THY STILL FUCKING THERE!!!

WHY WAS THE GOD DAMN MOTHER FUCKING RETREAT ORDER NOT FUCKING ISSUED WEEKS AGO!!!

I will tell you why.  Because this is absolute proof ZELENSKY GIVES ZERO FUCKS ABOUT HIS SOLDIERS!!!!

HE DID NOT WANT TO FUCKING RISK THE END OF WESTERN SUPPORT AND WANTED TO ADVOCATE FOR MORE MONEY!!!!!

Now these men have to make what will go down in history as the victims of a bloody and horrific retreat.  Every step they make they will be dogged by drones.  They will have to hug tree lines being blasted the fuck out of.