Calls by GOP for US about to abandon our allies and leave NATO

[CPslograd]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:40 AM, UtGrizfan said:

Same old same old, and they wonder why they got their asses kicked in the last election. When in doubt "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" is their only play, hope they keep it up going to ensure the left won't win any election in the USA anytime soon. 

The funny thing is the Russians call the Ukranians Nazis too.

Unproductive name calling.

[UtGrizfan]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:43 AM, CPslograd said:

Yah, he keeps throwing that out as if they are equivalent.

It's valid to point out the cynicism of Germany in this, but buying fossil fuels from Russia isn't the same thing as foreign aid to Ukraine.

You really don't think out of the 22 Billion dollars they sent that a significant portion didn't go to help Russia military production, purchases (Iran Drones) or the war effort at all?

[CPslograd]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:44 AM, UtGrizfan said:

You really don't think out of the 22 Billion dollars they sent that a significant portion didn't go to help Russia military production, purchases (Iran Drones) or the war effort at all?

I absolutely do, and think you are correct that it points to the hypocrisy and lack of seriousness of the Europeans about Ukraine.

I also think it's inaccurate to portray it as you are doing.

[UtGrizfan]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:43 AM, CPslograd said:

The funny thing is the Russians call the Ukranians Nazis too.

Unproductive name calling.

I mean these are actual Western Media headlines about Ukraine prior too Russia invading.

[AztecAlien]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:43 AM, CPslograd said:

The funny thing is the Russians call the Ukranians Nazis too.

Unproductive name calling.

You just nailed the the magnificent 7 on this board. 

[UtGrizfan]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:46 AM, CPslograd said:

I absolutely do, and think you are correct that it points to the hypocrisy of unseriousness of the Europeans about Ukraine.

I also think it's inaccurate to portray it as you are doing.

How is it inaccurate to point out that certain members of the EU gave Russia more money then Ukraine in 2024, are helping fund Russias fight against Ukraine and helping lessen the impact of sanctions? 

[CPslograd]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:48 AM, UtGrizfan said:

How is it inaccurate to point out that certain members of the EU are helping fund Russias fight against Ukraine and helping lessen the impact of sanctions?

OK, well by this argument are we helping Red China take over Taiwan every time we buy one of those plastic toys for our kids at Target?

[UtGrizfan]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:50 AM, CPslograd said:

OK, well by this argument are we helping Red China take over Taiwan every time we buy one of those plastic toys for our kids at Target?

Is China in an active war with Taiwan and dependent on buying up foreign weapons, ammo and supplies from other countries such as artillery shells and drones to keep up with expenditures?

[Old_SD_Dude]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:43 AM, UtGrizfan said:

Natural Gas and other Energy purchases, the EU depends on Russia for 20% of its energy. They claim to hate Russia and love Ukraine, but are literally helping Russia fight Ukraine.

Euro energy infrastructure and production has long been based on the importation of Russian gas. The infrastructure isn’t there to replace it entirely as it needs to be shipped. The use of Russian gas has been reduced substantially (to the benefit of the U.S.), and will decline more as Ukraine just shut down the original pipeline crossing west across its territory.

I find the characterization of money used to pay for an imported commodity as money “sent” to the exporting country an odd one. By that line of thinking the US “sent” $465B to China last year. Of course we’re not in an active war with China but can anyone deny that US v China is the world’s chief geopolitical rivalry?

[NorCalCoug]

On 3/3/2025 at 8:47 AM, happycamper said:

They're certainly a soft power superpower. They have you wrapped around their finger lol

Not me…. I haven’t spoken to Daddy Vladdy in ages!!! 

[AztecAlien]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:50 AM, CPslograd said:

OK, well by this argument are we helping Red China take over Taiwan every time we buy one of those plastic toys for our kids at Target?

The U.S. became an economic superpower before corporate America sold us out to China. Our lawmakers continue to treat us as consumers and not constituents. So in a way, yes we are helping. 

[thehowlin]

Just so we are clear, Europe and Ukraine are going to tell the US and our new buddy Vlad to pound sand. 

NATO is not going anywhere, it will continue to exist and likely expand without the US. If Putin’s goal was to stop the expansion of NATO he has already failed spectacularly.

We can continue to retreat into isolationism, destroy any credibility we have with allies like Japan and Taiwan that the US will be there if the Chinese ever get really aggressive. 

Our retreat from soft power programs like USAID are rapidly being replaced by China’s own soft power programs.

So, if your goal is to diminish the United States as a force for good in the world, diminish her economic influence, and separate her from alliances that have kept the peace for 50+ years, everything we are witnessing is going exactly according to plan.

 

[Sactowndog]

On 3/3/2025 at 8:35 AM, CPslograd said:

Right, that's not at all the same thing as saying we should leave NATO

I think I said she is laying the groundwork by saying we don’t have shared values.  You see it here and I hear it everyday echoed by my MAGA friends that “communist” Europe doesn’t align with our values.   

that messaging is not out there just for the hell of it.  

[The San Diegan]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:43 AM, CPslograd said:

The funny thing is the Russians call the Ukranians Nazis too.

Unproductive name calling.

Dmitry Utkin, the now-deceased head of Wagner:

And of course MAGA:

And then we have the party for which Elmo was stumping and with whom's leadership Vance met:

Anybody see the commonality?

[Sactowndog]

On 3/3/2025 at 8:48 AM, CPslograd said:

That article makes the accusation that Navarro talked about border changes, but doesn't give any context or say what the "threat" was.  And Navarro denies it.  There isn't even a quote from someone who says it happened, the article just sort of floats it out there.  You gotta have more than that

Yeah I don’t at this point.  But I have seen enough we said it than denied it (Project 2025) to put very little past the Trump admin at this point.   

[CPslograd]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:49 AM, The San Diegan said:

Dmitry Utkin, the now-deceased head of Wagner:

And of course MAGA:

And then we have the party for which Elmo was stumping and with whom's leadership Vance met:

Anybody see the commonality?

Azov movement analysis: A far-right battalion has a key role in Ukraine’s resistance. Its neo-Nazi history has been exploited by Putin | CNN

I don't think that makes Ukranians or Zelensky Nazis either.

Look, if you are starting with the premise that everyone who doesn't agree with the center left consensus is a Nazi, I don't really see the point in a conversation.

[Sactowndog]

On 3/3/2025 at 10:10 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Deranged old man doesn’t like that poster read his link and pointed out it doesn’t say what he purports it does so he claims poster is a genocidal mass murderer. Happy jumps in to “well ackshually”. More at 11.

Haha nice try……

I stand by my comment she is laying the groundwork.   
 

And no I said you keep excusing this shit you can end up exactly where the German people did who basically started as a democracy and went down the same journey we are embarking upon.  The further you let it go the harder it becomes to stop it.  

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:57 AM, Sactowndog said:

Haha nice try……

I stand by my comment she is laying the groundwork.   
 

And no I said you keep excusing this shit you can end up exactly where the German people did who basically started as a democracy and went down the same journey we are embarking upon.  The further you let it go the harder it becomes to stop it.  

Lol that’s not what you said. Why are you lying? It’s there for everybody to read.

[Sactowndog]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:55 AM, CPslograd said:

Azov movement analysis: A far-right battalion has a key role in Ukraine’s resistance. Its neo-Nazi history has been exploited by Putin | CNN

I don't think that makes Ukranians or Zelensky Nazis either.

Look, if you are starting with the premise that everyone who doesn't agree with the center left consensus is a Nazi, I don't really see the point in a conversation.

Yeah except it’s the Center right now in control in Germany and they don’t want anything to do with the afd (whom Elon’s funding) because they think they are NAZI’s also.   

The difference between Germany and here is Germany does not have the hubris to say it could never happen here.  Let’s not pretend it’s just a “Center Left” coalition that thinks those guys are dangerous.  

And to be fair, plenty of American Conservatives believe MAGA and Trumpism is equally dangerous.  But no one is listening to the Cheney’s, Kinzinger’s, Bill Kristol’s, Joe Walsh’s of the world.  It is why when I talk about fascism I put it in terms of MAGA or Trumpism and never Republican.   

[Sactowndog]

On 3/2/2025 at 3:16 PM, Sactowndog said:

It’s not just Elon.   
 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-gabbard-sounds-off-europes-divergence-us-values-after-tense-trump-zelenskyy-meeting.amp

@CPslograd curious how you feel about Trump dismantling everything accomplished by Reagan?  
 

Guess they should change Reagan National to Trump National….. 

here is exactly what I said @thelawlorfaithful    I didn’t say she was explicitly calling for ending NATO.  She is participating in the push by undermining the belief in shared values which I clarified in a subsequent post.

 

I think the end point is a push to end participation in NATO.