Calls by GOP for US about to abandon our allies and leave NATO

[CPslograd]

On 3/2/2025 at 4:43 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Why should we support and remain in an organization made up of:

-Goverments that are Hellbent on starting WWIII yet don't want to personally commit themselves

-Refuse to keep the promises they're supposed to in regards to spending, military production and readiness in NATO

-Only pretend to care about the United States when we're paying them at the expense of/abusing the American taxpayer

-Openly interfere with US elections (Zelensky and the UK Labour Party)

-A few acting like Russia in terms of political and free speech censorship, authoritarian 

-Are literally paying Russia BILLIONS of dollars every single year, helping fund the War against Ukriane

We don't need NATO, I've been told repeatedly on here by people that Russia is a "paper tiger" so the EU should be fine on their own right? Let the EU put its money and military where it's big mouth is, they can find another piggy bank and world policeman to use and abuse.

Am I correct in assuming you were a big Ron Paul supporter?

[CPslograd]

On 3/2/2025 at 4:43 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Why should we support and remain in an organization made up of:

-Goverments that are Hellbent on starting WWIII yet don't want to personally commit themselves

-Refuse to keep the promises they're supposed to in regards to spending, military production and readiness in NATO

-Only pretend to care about the United States when we're paying them at the expense of/abusing the American taxpayer

-Openly interfere with US elections (Zelensky and the UK Labour Party)

-A few acting like Russia in terms of political and free speech censorship, authoritarian 

-Are literally paying Russia BILLIONS of dollars every single year, helping fund the War against Ukriane

We don't need NATO, I've been told repeatedly on here by people that Russia is a "paper tiger" so the EU should be fine on their own right? Let the EU put its money and military where it's big mouth is, they can find another piggy bank and world policeman to use and abuse.

Actually this is dumb.

The USA's primary asymetrical advantage over China is our network of alliances.  It gives us political clout, soft power, and allows us to project military power all over the world.  It has also prevented a World War for 80 years.  You want to throw that all away because the Euros don't spend enough on defense?

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 3/2/2025 at 3:16 PM, Sactowndog said:

It’s not just Elon.   
 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-gabbard-sounds-off-europes-divergence-us-values-after-tense-trump-zelenskyy-meeting.amp

@CPslograd curious how you feel about Trump dismantling everything accomplished by Reagan?  
 

Guess they should change Reagan National to Trump National….. 

She doesn’t say anything about leaving NATO. NATO isn’t even mentioned in the article.

[CPslograd]

On 3/2/2025 at 3:16 PM, Sactowndog said:

It’s not just Elon.   
 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-gabbard-sounds-off-europes-divergence-us-values-after-tense-trump-zelenskyy-meeting.amp

@CPslograd curious how you feel about Trump dismantling everything accomplished by Reagan?  
 

Guess they should change Reagan National to Trump National….. 

Lawlor is right, she never said anything remotely like that.  Elon did apparently, and Trump should say "no, that's a stupid idea, Elon should stay focused on Doge"  But of course he won't.

I've never been a Gabbard fan, but I think you inaccurately portraying what she said.  Democrats were just as outraged when Rumsfeld talked about Old Europe, that was going to be the end of the world too.

[UtGrizfan]

On 3/2/2025 at 8:57 PM, CPslograd said:

Actually this is dumb.

The USA's primary asymetrical advantage over China is our network of alliances.  It gives us political clout, soft power, and allows us to project military power all over the world.  It has also prevented a World War for 80 years.  You want to throw that all away because the Euros don't spend enough on defense?

We should not be covering for their deficiencies that they could cover but refuse too, it's their own fault for throwing all their money into social programs. We shouldn't have to be their piggy bank or security guard, let alone to people who don't give a damn about Americans. I'm not advocating for full isolationism but as far as I'm concerned it's about time we focus on ourselves for a change and let them actually contribute what they promised to, no more being taken advantage of

[Wyobraska]

On 3/2/2025 at 9:16 PM, UtGrizfan said:

We should not be covering for their deficiencies that they could cover but refuse too, it's their own fault for throwing all their money into social programs. We shouldn't have to be their piggy bank or security guard, let alone to people who don't give a damn about Americans. I'm not advocating for full isolationism but as far as I'm concerned it's about time we focus on ourselves for a change and let them actually contribute what they promised to, no more being taken advantage of

I would think there is a more nuanced path between paying for everything and leaving NATO.  

[Sactowndog]

On 3/2/2025 at 8:11 PM, CPslograd said:

Lawlor is right, she never said anything remotely like that.  Elon did apparently, and Trump should say "no, that's a stupid idea, Elon should stay focused on Doge"  But of course he won't.

I've never been a Gabbard fan, but I think you inaccurately portraying what she said.  Democrats were just as outraged when Rumsfeld talked about Old Europe, that was going to be the end of the world too.

What she said was as follows:

"there's something fundamentally deeper here that shows a huge difference and divergence between" U.S. values and national security versus European countries offering continued support for the war. 
 

and btw now Sen Lee is echoing it.  This shit doesn’t happen without Trumps backing. 
 

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-nato-donald-trump-b2707635.html#

[Sactowndog]

On 3/2/2025 at 8:01 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

She doesn’t say anything about leaving NATO. NATO isn’t even mentioned in the article.

No but she is laying the groundwork by stating we don’t have shared values.  
 

MAGA wants to kill NATO 

[UtGrizfan]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:51 PM, Sactowndog said:

No but she is laying the groundwork by stating we don’t have shared values.  
 

MAGA wants to kill NATO 

NATO is already dying unless things change, everyone is celebrating the 2 billion the UK gave Ukraine recently but ignoring the 22 Billion the EU sent to Russia in 2024 alone. 

It could be Trump is encouraging/allowing these statements to be put out to pressure the rest of NATO into actually stepping up and paying/investing what they should already be doing. 

[Sactowndog]

On 3/2/2025 at 10:58 PM, UtGrizfan said:

NATO is already dying unless things change, everyone is celebrating the 2 billion the UK gave Ukraine recently but ignoring the 22 Billion the EU sent to Russia in 2024 alone. 

It could be Trump is encouraging/allowing these statements to be put out to pressure the rest of NATO into actually stepping up and paying/investing what they should already be doing. 

It could be.  Or it could be they are doing Putin’s wishes and killing it.  

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 3/2/2025 at 10:51 PM, Sactowndog said:

No but she is laying the groundwork by stating we don’t have shared values.  
 

MAGA wants to kill NATO 

You can just stop there. You have nothing substantial to add. 

[Sactowndog]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:35 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

You can just stop there. You have nothing substantial to add. 

Tell that to Mike Lee.   
 

but hey why stop with the Europeans.  Hard to be in NATO when we are trying to take over Canada and Greenland

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/51st-state-donald-trumps-closest-advisor-peter-navarro-threatens-to-redraw-canadian-border-amid-presidents-talk-of-the-country-becoming-next-u-s-state/amp_articleshow/118637040.cms

 

you keep telling yourself supporting Trump can’t be that bad and then it gets worst.  Soon you will be leading an SS Camp.   

[mugtang]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:42 PM, Sactowndog said:

Tell that to Mike Lee.   
 

but hey why stop with the Europeans.  Hard to be in NATO when we are trying to take over Canada and Greenland

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/51st-state-donald-trumps-closest-advisor-peter-navarro-threatens-to-redraw-canadian-border-amid-presidents-talk-of-the-country-becoming-next-u-s-state/amp_articleshow/118637040.cms

 

you keep telling yourself supporting Trump can’t be that bad and then it gets worst.  Soon you will be leading an SS Camp.   

JFC that's completely unnecessary.  

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:42 PM, Sactowndog said:

Tell that to Mike Lee.   
 

but hey why stop with the Europeans.  Hard to be in NATO when we are trying to take over Canada and Greenland

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/51st-state-donald-trumps-closest-advisor-peter-navarro-threatens-to-redraw-canadian-border-amid-presidents-talk-of-the-country-becoming-next-u-s-state/amp_articleshow/118637040.cms

 

you keep telling yourself supporting Trump can’t be that bad and then it gets worst.  Soon you will be leading an SS Camp.   

Like I said, you had nothing substantial to add if you’d bother to read the OP.

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:47 PM, mugtang said:

JFC that's completely unnecessary.  

It’s fine. Let him talk. It doesn’t do me any harm.

[Sactowndog]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:47 PM, mugtang said:

JFC that's completely unnecessary.  

Is it?  Don’t you think many of the Germans in the 1930’s were people just like Lawlor?  We want to assume they were all evil monsters but they were just regular humans who went along with their teams.   People who felt ah it can’t get worse until it did.  

[Sactowndog]

On 3/3/2025 at 12:07 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Like I said, you had nothing substantial to add if you’d bother to read the OP.

I don’t disagree and I’m not adding much.  I’m just letting the links and the words speak for themselves….

“Get us out of NATO,” Lee wrote on X on Saturday.

 

[Akkula]

On 3/3/2025 at 1:42 AM, Sactowndog said:

 

you keep telling yourself supporting Trump can’t be that bad and then it gets worst.  Soon you will be leading an SS Camp.   

[NorCalCoug]

On 3/3/2025 at 2:45 AM, Sactowndog said:

Is it?  Don’t you think many of the Germans in the 1930’s were people just like Lawlor?  We want to assume they were all evil monsters but they were just regular humans who went along with their teams.   People who felt ah it can’t get worse until it did.  

You’re losing it completely.  Seek help.

[Akkula]

On 3/2/2025 at 11:10 PM, Wyobraska said:

I would think there is a more nuanced path between paying for everything and leaving NATO.  

Yeah, like doing a 15 year withdrawal plan of troops from Europe to give them time to ramp up?  Maybe that is a better option than pulling the rug out and telling Putin to attack them.

A 15 year plan doesn't get Trump on TV tho!