The San Diegan Posted March 2 Posted March 2 Again, I never want to hear another fucking word about how Republicans give two shits about national security. The entire goddamn party has been compromised AFAIAC... they're as dangerous as the Dems are feckless. From the UK Defense Journal: Quote Elon Musk, a key figure in President Donald Trump’s administration and head of the United States Department of Government Efficiency, has backed calls for the United States to leave the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO). Musk voiced his support on X (formerly Twitter) on Saturday night when he responded “I agree” to a post stating, “It’s time to leave NATO and the UN.” His endorsement aligns with growing calls from some Republican lawmakers, including Senator Mike Lee, to reconsider the US commitment to the alliance. Lee, a long-time critic of NATO, has described it as a “Cold War relic” and argued that the alliance “has to come to a halt.” He claims NATO is a “great deal for Europe” but a “raw deal for America”, suggesting that US resources are being stretched to protect Europe while offering little direct benefit to American security. Link Why the fuck does this guy have a single fucking word to say about influencing our national defense policy anyway? LOFNL. Fucking dork. 3 1 Quote
Akkula Posted March 2 Posted March 2 The USA defacto inherited the colonial empires from before WW2. It basically got a lot of the benefits of an empire without a lot of the cost of having to suppress the natives. Part of what the USA had to do to get its hegemony was to have a big military and also project soft power. If the USA wants to give up it empire someone will fill the void. I think the world will move on if the USA decides to abdicate its position. But I think it is funny that Trumpists think everyone will listen to the USA but the USA has to give up nothing in return. They will just stop worrying about what the USA thinks. 3 1 1 Quote
mugtang Posted March 2 Posted March 2 On 3/2/2025 at 12:12 PM, Akkula said: The USA defacto inherited the colonial empires from before WW2. It basically got a lot of the benefits of an empire without a lot of the cost of having to suppress the natives. Part of what the USA had to do to get its hegemony was to have a big military and also project soft power. If the USA wants to give up it empire someone will fill the void. I think the world will move on if the USA decides to abdicate its position. But I think it is funny that Trumpists think everyone will listen to the USA but the USA has to give up nothing in return. They will just stop worrying about what the USA thinks. Leaving NATO is shortsighted and cutting off our nose to spite our face. Leaving NATO will lead to the collapse of the US led western world. Our allies will abandon us as we will no longer be considered a reliable partner. South Korea & Japan will likely pursue nuclear weapons to protect against an aggressive North Korea & China. The US dollar will be abandoned as the reserve currency, instead will be replaced by a basket of currencies. This will lead to an economic depression in the United States as the government will be forced to take austerity measure because people will stop buying our debt. I'm sure I'm just being alarmist but I just don't see anything good coming from us leaving NATO. 7 3 1 Quote
Sactowndog Posted March 2 Posted March 2 On 3/2/2025 at 10:00 AM, The San Diegan said: Again, I never want to hear another fucking word about how Republicans give two shits about national security. The entire goddamn party has been compromised AFAIAC... they're as dangerous as the Dems are feckless. From the UK Defense Journal: Link Why the fuck does this guy have a single fucking word to say about influencing our national defense policy anyway? LOFNL. Fucking dork. It’s not just Elon. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dni-gabbard-sounds-off-europes-divergence-us-values-after-tense-trump-zelenskyy-meeting.amp @CPslograd curious how you feel about Trump dismantling everything accomplished by Reagan? Guess they should change Reagan National to Trump National….. 1 Quote
Sactowndog Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 2:56 PM, mugtang said: Leaving NATO is shortsighted and cutting off our nose to spite our face. Leaving NATO will lead to the collapse of the US led western world. Our allies will abandon us as we will no longer be considered a reliable partner. South Korea & Japan will likely pursue nuclear weapons to protect against an aggressive North Korea & China. The US dollar will be abandoned as the reserve currency, instead will be replaced by a basket of currencies. This will lead to an economic depression in the United States as the government will be forced to take austerity measure because people will stop buying our debt. I'm sure I'm just being alarmist but I just don't see anything good coming from us leaving NATO. Just posted this in the other thread but it’s worse listening to … https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/macro-voices/id1079172742?i=1000691908224 Quote
UtGrizfan Posted March 3 Posted March 3 Why should we support and remain in an organization made up of: -Goverments that are Hellbent on starting WWIII yet don't want to personally commit themselves -Refuse to keep the promises they're supposed to in regards to spending, military production and readiness in NATO -Only pretend to care about the United States when we're paying them at the expense of/abusing the American taxpayer -Openly interfere with US elections (Zelensky and the UK Labour Party) -A few acting like Russia in terms of political and free speech censorship, authoritarian -Are literally paying Russia BILLIONS of dollars every single year, helping fund the War against Ukriane We don't need NATO, I've been told repeatedly on here by people that Russia is a "paper tiger" so the EU should be fine on their own right? Let the EU put its money and military where it's big mouth is, they can find another piggy bank and world policeman to use and abuse. 1 1 3 Quote
Akkula Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 4:56 PM, mugtang said: Leaving NATO is shortsighted and cutting off our nose to spite our face. Leaving NATO will lead to the collapse of the US led western world. Our allies will abandon us as we will no longer be considered a reliable partner. South Korea & Japan will likely pursue nuclear weapons to protect against an aggressive North Korea & China. The US dollar will be abandoned as the reserve currency, instead will be replaced by a basket of currencies. This will lead to an economic depression in the United States as the government will be forced to take austerity measure because people will stop buying our debt. I'm sure I'm just being alarmist but I just don't see anything good coming from us leaving NATO. You want to be the biggest, baddest, and most important country in the world? You have to pay to play. You wanna bitch about how much country #36 spends on defense and how you are getting screwed? Maybe you are not up to the task anymore. Time to hang it up and pass the torch. That decision will save you a hell of a lot of money in your next yearly budget! Slide right into slot #37. 1 Quote
Akkula Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 6:43 PM, UtGrizfan said: Why should we support and remain in an organization made up of: -Goverments that are Hellbent on starting WWIII yet don't want to personally commit themselves -Refuse to keep the promises they're supposed to in regards to spending, military production and readiness in NATO -Only pretend to care about the United States when we're paying them at the expense of/abusing the American taxpayer -Openly interfere with US elections (Zelensky and the UK Labour Party) -A few acting like Russia in terms of political and free speech censorship, authoritarian -Are literally paying Russia BILLIONS of dollars every single year, helping fund the War against Ukriane We don't need NATO, I've been told repeatedly on here by people that Russia is a "paper tiger" so the EU should be fine on their own right? Let the EU put its money and military where it's big mouth is, they can find another piggy bank and world policeman to use and abuse. Don't then 1 Quote
UtGrizfan Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 6:19 PM, Akkula said: Don't then Not surprising you can't answer 1 Quote
Akkula Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 7:23 PM, UtGrizfan said: Not surprising you can't answer Nobody is going to beg you to stay. If it isn't in your best interest...get the fuck out. Allow those who want it to work to do their thing. 1 Quote
UtGrizfan Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 6:28 PM, Akkula said: Nobody is going to beg you to stay. If it isn't in your best interest...get the fuck out. Allow those who want it to work to do their thing. Who wants it to work? The EU? They annually give more $$ to Russia then they do Ukraine. Canada? They've spent hundreds of Millions of Dollars buying Russian fuel. Can you actually name someone who wants it to work? Quote
Akkula Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 7:33 PM, UtGrizfan said: Who wants it to work? The EU? They annually give more $$ to Russia then they do Ukraine. Canada? They've spent hundreds of Millions if Dollars on Russian fuel. Can you actually name someone who wants it to work? Then leave. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. 1 Quote
UtGrizfan Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 6:36 PM, Akkula said: Then leave. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Answer the questions, who actually wants to make this work and who actually can? Quote
AztecAlien Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 6:36 PM, Akkula said: Then leave. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Wait a minute, didn't you actually leave? Quote
Akkula Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 7:39 PM, UtGrizfan said: Answer the questions, who actually wants to make this work and who actually can? On 3/2/2025 at 8:01 PM, AztecAlien said: Wait a minute, didn't you actually leave? Omg...you guys are like the spouse who keeps threatening divorce. Fine...agreed. Quite honestly there couldn't be a better time for a divorce. Russia is such a weakling. Europe really doesn't need the USA any longer orchestrating everything. NATO is a relic and Europe can wipe the floor with Russia. They don't need the USA bossing everyone around any more. Quote
AztecAlien Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 7:12 PM, Akkula said: Omg...you guys are like the spouse who keeps threatening divorce. Fine...agreed. Quite honestly there couldn't be a better time for a divorce. Russia is such a weakling. Europe really doesn't need the USA any longer orchestrating everything. NATO is a relic and Europe can wipe the floor with Russia. They don't need the USA bossing everyone around any more. But you left the country and moved to a tax haven, coward. You have no say what Americans think. Now kindly GTFOH!! 1 Quote
NorCalCoug Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 5:43 PM, UtGrizfan said: Why should we support and remain in an organization made up of: -Goverments that are Hellbent on starting WWIII yet don't want to personally commit themselves -Refuse to keep the promises they're supposed to in regards to spending, military production and readiness in NATO -Only pretend to care about the United States when we're paying them at the expense of/abusing the American taxpayer -Openly interfere with US elections (Zelensky and the UK Labour Party) -A few acting like Russia in terms of political and free speech censorship, authoritarian -Are literally paying Russia BILLIONS of dollars every single year, helping fund the War against Ukriane We don't need NATO, I've been told repeatedly on here by people that Russia is a "paper tiger" so the EU should be fine on their own right? Let the EU put its money and military where it's big mouth is, they can find another piggy bank and world policeman to use and abuse. Go read the Ukraine war thread on the other board. Russia was a complete paper tiger to the same folks now acting like they’re some military superpower on this board. It is humorous to watch how the tune has changed to fit the new echo chamber narrative. 2 Quote
mugtang Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 4:43 PM, UtGrizfan said: Why should we support and remain in an organization made up of: -Goverments that are Hellbent on starting WWIII yet don't want to personally commit themselves -Refuse to keep the promises they're supposed to in regards to spending, military production and readiness in NATO -Only pretend to care about the United States when we're paying them at the expense of/abusing the American taxpayer -Openly interfere with US elections (Zelensky and the UK Labour Party) -A few acting like Russia in terms of political and free speech censorship, authoritarian -Are literally paying Russia BILLIONS of dollars every single year, helping fund the War against Ukriane We don't need NATO, I've been told repeatedly on here by people that Russia is a "paper tiger" so the EU should be fine on their own right? Let the EU put its money and military where it's big mouth is, they can find another piggy bank and world policeman to use and abuse. You know the only time Article V was invoked? It was when the United States was attacked in 9/11. And you know what happened? Every member of NATO came to our aid and assisted with the war in Afghanistan. The only people saying NATO is pushing for WWIII are Russian propagandists on social media. 7 2 1 1 1 Quote
AztecAlien Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 8:40 PM, mugtang said: You know the only time Article V was invoked? It was when the United States was attacked in 9/11. And you know what happened? Every member of NATO came to our aid and assisted with the war in Afghanistan. The only people saying NATO is pushing for WWIII are Russian propagandists on social media. How about mentioning all the misinformation, propaganda, and information taken out of context being spread on social media. There's a lot of that going on here. 1 Quote
CPslograd Posted March 3 Posted March 3 On 3/2/2025 at 7:40 PM, mugtang said: You know the only time Article V was invoked? It was when the United States was attacked in 9/11. And you know what happened? Every member of NATO came to our aid and assisted with the war in Afghanistan. The only people saying NATO is pushing for WWIII are Russian propagandists on social media. OK Mug, that's a nice talking point. But how serious was the European contribution to the War that Biden lost? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm honestly sick of both sides being trapped by their own love or disdain for Trump. Obviously it's a lot more complicated than the Europeans and Democrats love freedom and democracy and Orange Man is evil. Ukraine is no paragon of virtue and the West, particularly Western Europe, greatly contributed to the current predicament. The reflexive defense by republicans of Trumps obvious mishandling of the meeting and negotiations irritates me just as much. 2 Quote
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