halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 2/24/2025 at 7:11 AM, Sactowndog said: Except with Trump and Elon everyone outside of the U.S. will believe they used every bit of leverage they could. I would expect Europe to try to develop their own competitors. Good luck to Europe lolololololol. Starlink is only viable because Spacex has made rocket flight so cheap. Europe is afraid of Russia and their itty bitty pathetic economy and laughable military and you think they are going to compete with Spacex. Just stop Quote
AlpineSummer Posted February 24 Posted February 24 How Elon invented low earth satellites still amazes me. Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 2/24/2025 at 1:00 PM, AlpineSummer said: How Elon invented low earth satellites still amazes me. Starlink is only viable due a payload delivery cost of $1,500 per pound. That is 10X cheaper than any other payload delivery from any space agency in the world and 15X cheaper than NASA. Europe can't fund Ukraine or their own defense against pathetic little Russia and you think they can do that? Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 2/24/2025 at 1:48 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said: Starlink is only viable due a payload delivery cost of $1,500 per pound. That is 10X cheaper than any other payload delivery from any space agency in the world and 15X cheaper than NASA. Europe can't fund Ukraine or their own defense against pathetic little Russia and you think they can do that? To be clear, they WILL eventually be able to. But IRIS is more than a decade out from being viable. So, until then, the world needs Elons cooperation. Sadly Quote
AlpineSummer Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 2/24/2025 at 2:02 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said: To be clear, they WILL eventually be able to. But IRIS is more than a decade out from being viable. So, until then, the world needs Elons cooperation. Sadly And, Elon needs the cooperation of our government (≈ 25% of rev., iirc) and many others. It's symbiotic. 1 Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 2/24/2025 at 2:13 PM, AlpineSummer said: And, Elon needs the cooperation of our government (≈ 25% of rev., iirc) and many others. It's symbiotic. Yeah. Regarding the topic. Spacex would lose a lot of value in reputational damage alone if they shut off Ukraine. It's not in the best interest of his favorite company. Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 26 Posted February 26 Looks like shit is getting done. Looks like death and destruction and chaos and tragedy may be coming to a close. I am sure the board will talk about how horrible that is soon lol Cus you know. BEST DEAL EVVVEERRRR Quote
InnZoneU Posted February 26 Posted February 26 On 2/25/2025 at 7:18 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said: Looks like shit is getting done. Looks like death and destruction and chaos and tragedy may be coming to a close. I am sure the board will talk about how horrible that is soon lol Cus you know. BEST DEAL EVVVEERRRR Your Elmo heaters are entertaining. 1 Quote
happycamper Posted February 26 Posted February 26 On 2/25/2025 at 10:18 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said: Looks like shit is getting done. Looks like death and destruction and chaos and tragedy may be coming to a close. I am sure the board will talk about how horrible that is soon lol Cus you know. BEST DEAL EVVVEERRRR Honestly I'm torn. Ideologically the kind of realpolitik, purely transactional relationship is not my jam. For one, it's inherently amoral. For another, it's much less stable than international relationships based on a shared set of values/a common good. But... if it actually achieves a lasting peace (20 years?) and stops Russian expansionism for a generation, it buys Europe time to continue to arm up, buys Ukraine time to turn into a drone fortress, and leaves Russia ready for a post-war recession at the same time as losing something like 2% of their working male population. 3 Quote
SharkTanked Posted February 26 Posted February 26 On 2/25/2025 at 7:18 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said: Looks like shit is getting done. Looks like death and destruction and chaos and tragedy may be coming to a close. I am sure the board will talk about how horrible that is soon lol Cus you know. BEST DEAL EVVVEERRRR The devil is in the details as always, but this could be a VERY good thing for the US, especially short/near term. Long term... well the devil is in the details... From the article... Asked what Ukraine would receive in the mineral deal, Trump said: “$350 billion and lots of equipment, military equipment, and the right to fight on.” “We’ve pretty much negotiated our deal on rare earth and various other things,” Trump told reporters, adding that “we’ll be looking to” future security for Ukraine “later on.” “I don’t think that’s going to be a problem,” Trump said. “I spoke with Russia about it. They didn’t seem to have a problem with it. So I think they understand … once we do this, they’re not going back in.” 1 Quote
son of a gun Posted February 26 Posted February 26 On 2/26/2025 at 12:10 PM, SharkTanked said: The devil is in the details as always, but this could be a VERY good thing for the US, especially short/near term. Long term... well the devil is in the details... From the article... Asked what Ukraine would receive in the mineral deal, Trump said: “$350 billion and lots of equipment, military equipment, and the right to fight on.” “We’ve pretty much negotiated our deal on rare earth and various other things,” Trump told reporters, adding that “we’ll be looking to” future security for Ukraine “later on.” “I don’t think that’s going to be a problem,” Trump said. “I spoke with Russia about it. They didn’t seem to have a problem with it. So I think they understand … once we do this, they’re not going back in.” All it took was threatening to shut off the one thing letting them communicate and be able to keep fighting for their very existence, and while they are in the middle of said war, demand to be repaid in practically unrestricted mineral rights. Oh, and our reputation across the world, particularly with allies (they are still our allies, right?). Quote
SharkTanked Posted February 26 Posted February 26 On 2/26/2025 at 11:48 AM, son of a gun said: All it took was threatening to shut off the one thing letting them communicate and be able to keep fighting for their very existence, and while they are in the middle of said war, demand to be repaid in practically unrestricted mineral rights. Oh, and our reputation across the world, particularly with allies (they are still our allies, right?). We certainly lose any moral high ground, but I'm not sure how much we really have. It's not like we don't have skeletons in our closet. Honestly don't know who our allies are anymore. And yeah that's sad. That's why I think this is a tough pill to swallow long term. And from a global perspective it sucks too. Just looking at a purely transactional US perspective, it could be a very good short/near term deal. That seems to be what our people want right now. That's how the majority voted, even if I wasn't one of them. Quote
415hawaiiboy 2.0 Posted February 26 Posted February 26 I have been quiet on this matter but avoiding an East Asian great power war is my highest priority, and if Ukraine is salami sliced but at peace and with US industry investment (which acts as a de facto security trip wire), I’m ok with that. 1 Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/26/2025 at 7:01 AM, happycamper said: Honestly I'm torn. Ideologically the kind of realpolitik, purely transactional relationship is not my jam. For one, it's inherently amoral. For another, it's much less stable than international relationships based on a shared set of values/a common good. But... if it actually achieves a lasting peace (20 years?) and stops Russian expansionism for a generation, it buys Europe time to continue to arm up, buys Ukraine time to turn into a drone fortress, and leaves Russia ready for a post-war recession at the same time as losing something like 2% of their working male population. On 2/26/2025 at 11:10 AM, SharkTanked said: The devil is in the details as always, but this could be a VERY good thing for the US, especially short/near term. Long term... well the devil is in the details... From the article... Asked what Ukraine would receive in the mineral deal, Trump said: “$350 billion and lots of equipment, military equipment, and the right to fight on.” “We’ve pretty much negotiated our deal on rare earth and various other things,” Trump told reporters, adding that “we’ll be looking to” future security for Ukraine “later on.” “I don’t think that’s going to be a problem,” Trump said. “I spoke with Russia about it. They didn’t seem to have a problem with it. So I think they understand … once we do this, they’re not going back in.” It's a version of the security guarantee Ukraine was seeking. Europe's emergency meetings failed to offer much hope as Europe is split on sending boots to keep the peace with the UK and France seemingly open, but the rest of the powers balking. The REM's will be hared and expensive to extract but once the investment and infrastructure is in place to do so, should be a financial win and a win for our national security. The $350 billion in arms and cash from the US is a huge immediate win for Ukraine as well. Even giving up 50% of their mineral rights is going to be a huge win for them. They can use to infrastructure we build to actually tap into it. Owning 50% of a resources you can access is better than 100% of resources you can not. If this brings about some sort of peace that allows Ukraine to rebuild and become a hornets nest...well...Maybe we have to admit Trump is actually good at this shit... Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/26/2025 at 12:48 PM, son of a gun said: All it took was threatening to shut off the one thing letting them communicate and be able to keep fighting for their very existence, and while they are in the middle of said war, demand to be repaid in practically unrestricted mineral rights. Oh, and our reputation across the world, particularly with allies (they are still our allies, right?). Our allies are still our allies. They may be angry with us right now but this whole ordeal has made one thing abundantly clear. Europe needs us. They can't work together to get shit done. They failed miserably to come up with an alternative to a Trump deal and showed off their weakness. They need daddy. And, daddy needs them and needs them to pay their fair share. Quote
halfmanhalfbronco Posted February 27 Posted February 27 The Biden administrations goal for the war was to pressure Ukraine to do something they absolutely did not want to do, draft 18-24 year old men to give them the man power to keep the war of attrition going for several more years. Ukraine knows they would face demographic collapse and mentally scar an entire generation to the point they may not be productive. They know the long game. Trump's idea is to end the threat of further Russian aggression by making a deal for Ukrainian mineral rights they did not have the ability to access anyways with $350 billion dedicated in exchange to rebuilding their country and get critical REM's. How can anybody with a straight face tell me Trump's "deal" is not far better for Ukraine than what the Biden administration wanted? Quote
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