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Also, even if we assume the position that the tariff was a juke by design to get minor concessions, between the body check by the judicial branch on the admin's unconstitutional threats to halt Congressionally-approved funding and to remove birthright citizenship, Elon's siege heil backlash, the increased cost of (and sudden couldn't-give-a-shit attitude regarding) food prices, and the animosity some of our closest allies feel towards us now (Canada is boing our national anthem... CANADA), my scorecard reads 4-4 with Trump and Established Norms tied, so I'm not quite so sure it's the boat race (or opponent) you think it is. The tariff saber rattling tho did seem to be effective if that was the goal, so give credit where credits due.

But if the tariff fakie it was just puspus backpedaling due to the sudden realization of the harm this would cause to his base, then I have Established Norms up early 5-0.

  • Like 1
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 9:09 AM, The San Diegan said:

Also, even if we assume the position that the tariff was a juke by design to get minor concessions, between the body check by the judicial branch on the admin's unconstitutional threats to halt Congressionally-approved funding and to remove birthright citizenship, Elon's siege heil backlash, the increased cost of (and sudden couldn't-give-a-shit attitude regarding) food prices, and the animosity some of our closest allies feel towards us now (Canada is boing our national anthem... CANADA), my scorecard reads 4-4 with Trump and Established Norms tied, so I'm not quite so sure it's the boat race (or opponent) you think it is. The tariff saber rattling tho did seem to be effective if that was the goal, so give credit where credits due.

But if the tariff fakie it was just puspus backpedaling due to the sudden realization of the harm this would cause to his base, then I have Established Norms up early 5-0.

If you're opposed to Trumpism, I think this first couple weeks have gone about as well as could be expected. I mean, it's been shitty. Don't get me wrong. But we've gone down this road before, so the chaos was expected. Looking at the scorecard so far, there have been some wins, but the administration hasn't shown any real appetite to do anything more permanent. At least not yet. I look at this latest tariff thing as a perfect example of his governing principle of style over substance: Threaten tariffs to extract minor concessions on the border. Meanwhile, he killed an immigration reform bill last year that would have done far, far more.  His supporters can claim the win on this, but in the end, they could've gotten more if they'd have just taken the win last year when it was presented to them.

All that said, it's only been two weeks, so way too early to write the final chapter on this administration. 

  • Like 2
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 9:09 AM, The San Diegan said:

Also, even if we assume the position that the tariff was a juke by design to get minor concessions, between the body check by the judicial branch on the admin's unconstitutional threats to halt Congressionally-approved funding and to remove birthright citizenship, Elon's siege heil backlash, the increased cost of (and sudden couldn't-give-a-shit attitude regarding) food prices, and the animosity some of our closest allies feel towards us now (Canada is boing our national anthem... CANADA), my scorecard reads 4-4 with Trump and Established Norms tied, so I'm not quite so sure it's the boat race (or opponent) you think it is. The tariff saber rattling tho did seem to be effective if that was the goal, so give credit where credits due.

But if the tariff fakie it was just puspus backpedaling due to the sudden realization of the harm this would cause to his base, then I have Established Norms up early 5-0.

My preference is to let the trumpers think they are winning.  it just doesn't matter.  

both factions have such tunnel vision it's sad. 

Many of the Ds over-react to absolutely anything trump does... which will (or has) created the boy who cried wolf issue.  

While many of the trumpers will spin absolutely anything trump does or says as some sort of big win... I said in another thread the absolute love for anything trump does is fascinating.

Would be so nice if we just had some real leadership from either side.

 

  • Like 6
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 9:20 AM, Buttermaker said:

My preference is to let the trumpers think they are winning.  it just doesn't matter.  

both factions have such tunnel vision it's sad. 

Many of the Ds over-react to absolutely anything trump does... which will (or has) created the boy who cried wolf issue.  

While many of the trumpers will spin absolutely anything trump does or says as some sort of big win... I said in another thread the absolute love for anything trump does is fascinating.

Would be so nice if we just had some real leadership from either side.

 

Got a seat on the 50 yard line to watch this shit go down along with a wife I love (most of the time 😀), two fuzzbutts who make my soul glow, a few close friends for whom I would lay down my life, a roof over our head in the idyllic paradise in which we live, and a buttload of good cannabis and whiskey to whittle the days away while I wait. 

  • Like 3
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 12:19 PM, NVGiant Waste of Time said:

If you're opposed to Trumpism, I think this first couple weeks have gone about as well as could be expected. I mean, it's been shitty. Don't get me wrong. But we've gone down this road before, so the chaos was expected. Looking at the scorecard so far, there have been some wins, but the administration hasn't shown any real appetite to do anything more permanent. At least not yet. I look at this latest tariff thing as a perfect example of his governing principle of style over substance: Threaten tariffs to extract minor concessions on the border. Meanwhile, he killed an immigration reform bill last year that would have done far, far more.  His supporters can claim the win on this, but in the end, they could've gotten more if they'd have just taken the win last year when it was presented to them.

All that said, it's only been two weeks, so way too early to write the final chapter on this administration. 

The illegal stuff he's been shut down on pale in comparison to the overt takeover of pretty much every executive agency. 

  • Like 1
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 9:39 AM, happycamper said:

The illegal stuff he's been shut down on pale in comparison to the overt takeover of pretty much every executive agency. 

Oh, don't get me wrong. It hasn't been good. I'm not looking forward to cleaning up the mess. 

  • Like 1
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 10:09 AM, The San Diegan said:

Also, even if we assume the position that the tariff was a juke by design to get minor concessions, between the body check by the judicial branch on the admin's unconstitutional threats to halt Congressionally-approved funding and to remove birthright citizenship, Elon's siege heil backlash, the increased cost of (and sudden couldn't-give-a-shit attitude regarding) food prices, and the animosity some of our closest allies feel towards us now (Canada is boing our national anthem... CANADA), my scorecard reads 4-4 with Trump and Established Norms tied, so I'm not quite so sure it's the boat race (or opponent) you think it is. The tariff saber rattling tho did seem to be effective if that was the goal, so give credit where credits due.

But if the tariff fakie it was just puspus backpedaling due to the sudden realization of the harm this would cause to his base, then I have Established Norms up early 5-0.

 

I was obviously trolling. That's what happens a lot around here. 

We're in the bottom of ninth as two sides battle. 

The Republicans are winning because they are listening to what the American working class is saying that Democrats have been ignoring for the last two decades. If the Democrats could put two middle ground candidates together, they might have a shot in 2028. If they continue down the road of catering to activist groups instead of listening to what Americans believe are the priority issues that are plaguing the country, they will lose again. 

There's too much corporate influence in our House of Representatives.The problem also arises when the constant change of power happens every four years and the next administration comes in and changes policy, even if it's good policy, out of spite.

The losing side starts campaigning to try and remove the winning side pretty much the day after an election. With the media and social media, it starts the hour after a winner is declared. One side eventually gets too radical and the constant changing of power we have seen throughout American history hurts the people that are actually the ones that are supposed to be in charge. In the last election, Republicans won because they were paying attention even with all the claims of being so bad. 

And people wonder why nothing gets done. 2026 and 2028 will be interesting. 


 

  • Haha 1
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 12:49 PM, AztecAlien said:

 

I was obviously trolling. That's what happens a lot around here. 

We're in the bottom of ninth as two sides battle. 

The Republicans are winning because they are listening to what the American working class is saying that Democrats have been ignoring for the last two decades. If the Democrats could put two middle ground candidates together, they might have a shot in 2028. If they continue down the road of catering to activist groups instead of listening to what Americans believe are the priority issues that are plaguing the country, they will lose again. 

There's too much corporate influence in our House of Representatives.The problem also arises when the constant change of power happens every four years and the next administration comes in and changes policy, even if it's good policy, out of spite.

The losing side starts campaigning to try and remove the winning side pretty much the day after an election. With the media and social media, it starts the hour after a winner is declared. One side eventually gets too radical and the constant changing of power we have seen throughout American history hurts the people that are actually the ones that are supposed to be in charge. In the last election, Republicans won because they were paying attention even with all the claims of being so bad. 

And people wonder why nothing gets done. 2026 and 2028 will be interesting. 


 

I don't really think it is "middle vs left". I think that dichotomy got blown to oblivion by Trump. I think it is more wall street vs main street, or labor vs money. And whatever you think of Trump, he's successfully positioned himself on the side of main street, somehow, despite being an east coast elitist nepo baby and despite all his politics.

I think that the democrats have a private consultant capture issue. From the reporting I've heard on the DNC, on what they told Kamala, on how to handle the election... there's an insulated professional class of private consultants who are very out of touch and who try to act like the liberals who love corporations. call it gavin newsome as a political class. Then you have guys like Walz, who is further left economically than the Democratic center, but who is more popular and actually has a message, unlike the party as a whole.

The consultant class has done a great job muzzling the pro labor wing of the democrats, to the detriment of the party imo. 

  • Like 4
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 9:49 AM, AztecAlien said:

 

I was obviously trolling. That's what happens a lot around here. 

We're in the bottom of ninth as two sides battle. 

The Republicans are winning because they are listening to what the American working class is saying that Democrats have been ignoring for the last two decades. If the Democrats could put two middle ground candidates together, they might have a shot in 2028. If they continue down the road of catering to activist groups instead of listening to what Americans believe are the priority issues that are plaguing the country, they will lose again. 

There's too much corporate influence in our House of Representatives.The problem also arises when the constant change of power happens every four years and the next administration comes in and changes policy, even if it's good policy, out of spite.

The losing side starts campaigning to try and remove the winning side pretty much the day after an election. With the media and social media, it starts the hour after a winner is declared. One side eventually gets too radical and the constant changing of power we have seen throughout American history hurts the people that are actually the ones that are supposed to be in charge. In the last election Republicans won because they were paying attention even with claims of being so bad. 

And people wonder why nothing gets done. 2026 and 2028 will be interesting. 


 

We just need to get money the fuck out of politics, period. 

I don't know how anyone can think Citizens United is/was a good thing, or how a sitting president refusing to honor the Emoluments Clause by launching a fucking meme coin to allow the funneling of tens of billions of dark money funds into their own pockets is a good thing. Yet the political lines do seem pretty clearly drawn in these two instances, don't they?

  • Like 2
Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 9:49 AM, AztecAlien said:

 

I was obviously trolling. That's what happens a lot around here. 

We're in the bottom of ninth as two sides battle. 

The Republicans are winning because they are listening to what the American working class is saying that Democrats have been ignoring for the last two decades. If the Democrats could put two middle ground candidates together, they might have a shot in 2028. If they continue down the road of catering to activist groups instead of listening to what Americans believe are the priority issues that are plaguing the country, they will lose again. 

There's too much corporate influence in our House of Representatives.The problem also arises when the constant change of power happens every four years and the next administration comes in and changes policy, even if it's good policy, out of spite.

The losing side starts campaigning to try and remove the winning side pretty much the day after an election. With the media and social media, it starts the hour after a winner is declared. One side eventually gets too radical and the constant changing of power we have seen throughout American history hurts the people that are actually the ones that are supposed to be in charge. In the last election, Republicans won because they were paying attention even with all the claims of being so bad. 

And people wonder why nothing gets done. 2026 and 2028 will be interesting. 


 

If the Dems listened to the American working class, they'd have nominated Bernie and not middle ground candidates.

Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 10:58 AM, The San Diegan said:

We just need to get money the fuck out of politics, period. 

I don't know how anyone can think Citizens United is/was a good thing, or how a sitting president refusing to honor the Emoluments Clause by launching a fucking meme coin to allow the funneling of tens of billions of dark money funds into their own pockets is a good thing. Yet the political lines do seem pretty clearly drawn in these two instances, don't they?

I agree, but our lawmakers follow the money regardless of the letter associated with them as well. We have the power with voting, but it doesn’t seem to be working. 

Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 11:01 AM, NVGiant Waste of Time said:

If the Dems listened to the American working class, they'd have nominated Bernie and not middle ground candidates.

Maybe, but the Democratic Party destroyed any chance of Bernie Sanders becoming president and they lost. 

I agree with Bernie on a lot of issues. But I am not sure I would vote for him today. 

Posted
On 2/4/2025 at 11:19 AM, NVGiant Waste of Time said:

If you're opposed to Trumpism, I think this first couple weeks have gone about as well as could be expected. I mean, it's been shitty. Don't get me wrong. But we've gone down this road before, so the chaos was expected. Looking at the scorecard so far, there have been some wins, but the administration hasn't shown any real appetite to do anything more permanent. At least not yet. I look at this latest tariff thing as a perfect example of his governing principle of style over substance: Threaten tariffs to extract minor concessions on the border. Meanwhile, he killed an immigration reform bill last year that would have done far, far more.  His supporters can claim the win on this, but in the end, they could've gotten more if they'd have just taken the win last year when it was presented to them.

All that said, it's only been two weeks, so way too early to write the final chapter on this administration. 

That is why Trump is a terrific candidate but a poor president.  

Being a candidate is about getting attention.  He can propose all kinds of "pie in the sky" solutions and vilify people.  But like the other Republicans...governing is hard.  Purity tests usually just end up causing nothing to get done.  Republicans, despite all their wind baggery are basically just for the status quo because they cannot govern.  

They should really just dust off the immigration bill they killed under Biden and pass that.  Otherwise, they are hopeless.  But the problem is Trump doesn't know how to put his political capital behind anything and will never buck the wackos.  He isn't like Obama who got the ACA through and took the political hits by disappointing liberals.  In Trumps world, he would just spike the deal and nothing would get done.  Then he and Republicans would proclaim VICTORY

But Obama's ACA is permanent.  Trump got nothing permanent in his first term.  Biden got infrastructure done.  Trump just got a teporary tax cut for rich guys.  

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