Awesome Scenario for MWC

[OrediggerPoke]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:19 PM, Ds214 said:

I think this is right, but I think people are severely underestimating the fundamental truth in sports antitrust cases: sports are different. The very first case that ever dealt with sports and antitrust law held that baseball is exempt from antitrust analysis because sports are different. While they’ve walked that back, courts are very deferential to sports leagues and regulations the leagues find appropriate.

Also, hypothetically, if OSU and WSU entered into an agreement never intending to fulfill its terms, how are they not liable for fraudulent inducement? It’s too early in the lawsuit for counterclaims to be mandatory, but I’d be surprised if that (or at least an unclean hands defense) doesn’t become prevalent.

Lastly, here’s a note on the ACC’s experience with this very issue. Unless it’s settled, it probably isn’t resolved soon. And if a court did issue a shocking blow and strike down entire agreements, expect the Big Bros to step in and protect themselves

https://www.wakeforestlawreview.com/2024/09/fumbling-in-court-exploring-the-florida-state-acc-lawsuit/

1) Anti-trust history in sports is certainly interesting but I don’t believe the anti-trust arguments in either case have much legal merit and I don’t believe plaintiffs’ counsel are really throwing all their eggs into that basket either. There’s a good chance much of the anti-trust arguments will be weeded out in the pending motions to dismiss.  
 

2) Counterclaims, if any, are required to be attached to and asserted in an answer filing or they may be forever precluded under the legal doctrine of claim preclusion.  Answers will be filed by the MWC once the outstanding motions to dismiss are resolved.  
 

3) I highly doubt the MWC will be bringing any counterclaims for fraudulent inducement.  The doctrine of unclean hands is not really a claim but is typically an affirmative defense; the MWC will probably include it on their answer as an affirmative defense. 
 

4) The case and settlement discussions ultimately will likely be a pretty straight forward analysis of what is a reasonable total liability owed to the MWC and how that liability will be apportioned between the departing schools and WSU/OSU.  
 

 

[Headbutt]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:17 PM, OrediggerPoke said:

If you’re referring to me, I just read through Spaztecs post.  I disagree entirely with his legal analysis.  I see the anti-trust arguments raised by the plaintiffs in the two separate lawsuits as each having little chance of legal argument success. And I doubt the plaintiffs see them as realistic avenues to success either.

The legal argument that the plaintiffs raised in both suits that I see as the real crux of the case is that the MWC is seeking to be compensated for the same harm twice through the exit and poaching fees. In contract law, courts typically seek to avoid results that allow for double recovery of the same harm or that otherwise may result in the award of a penalty or a windfall. After I read the CSU/Utah State suit, it seemed to me that their suit was more about trying to allocate some of the exit fee liability to Washington State and Oregon State than anything.

What I foresee is that both cases will be narrowed down through the motion to dismiss arguments and hearings (likely with some of the anti-trust claims to be dismissed). Following those arguments and following answers by the MWC, I would speculate that we will see: (1) a flurry of joinder motions to bring in all of the parties into each case; (2) and ultimately a global settlement to both cases that will set forth a total liability of all PAC schools to the MWC and that will allocate that liability amongst the departing schools and WSU/OSU.  The total liability will almost certainly be less than the combined exit and poaching fees the MWC seeks but it will likely be a very substantial amount.  

Pretty much what I said.  I never brought up anti-trust, just that the courts wouldn't allow the totality of both damages (poaching and exit fees).  The departing 5 won't get away with just the $55 mil that the MWC agreed were fair damages for losing 5 teams, but that with that ammo on hand they also would have an argument that the roughly $94 mil that the exit fees represent are overstated as damages.  I'm guessing a settlement will land around $80 million.  Which is less than the combined exit and poaching fees, but still a substantial amount. 

[Headbutt]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:19 PM, Ds214 said:

I think this is right, but I think people are severely underestimating the fundamental truth in sports antitrust cases: sports are different. The very first case that ever dealt with sports and antitrust law held that baseball is exempt from antitrust analysis because sports are different. While they’ve walked that back, courts are very deferential to sports leagues and regulations the leagues find appropriate.

Also, hypothetically, if OSU and WSU entered into an agreement never intending to fulfill its terms, how are they not liable for fraudulent inducement? It’s too early in the lawsuit for counterclaims to be mandatory, but I’d be surprised if that (or at least an unclean hands defense) doesn’t become prevalent.

Lastly, here’s a note on the ACC’s experience with this very issue. Unless it’s settled, it probably isn’t resolved soon. And if a court did issue a shocking blow and strike down entire agreements, expect the Big Bros to step in and protect themselves

https://www.wakeforestlawreview.com/2024/09/fumbling-in-court-exploring-the-florida-state-acc-lawsuit/

Not lately it seems.  Every regulation the NCAA seems to find appropriate tends to get overruled by the courts anymore.  Commonsense transfer restrictions and NIL regulations have all been tossed out the window by the courts.

[Iam4wyo]

On 1/19/2025 at 6:33 PM, 4UNLV said:

Nobody in the MW has said the MW would be better than the PAC..

In certain layers, the MW is better, in others, the Pac is better.  Let Fresno, CSewe, and Utard State act like they are all that...but they absolutely are not.  They are the equivalent of UTEP, Wyoming, and Nevada in that order.  

[Brew_Poke]

On 1/18/2025 at 5:11 PM, CSUProgressive said:

Punching above their weight? Sure, let’s talk about Oregon State winning 10 games in 2022 and becoming a top-20 program despite having fewer resources than most of their competitors. Or Washington State consistently fielding competitive teams while being in one of the smallest markets in major college football. These programs have proven they can do more with less—something schools like UTEP and Texas State can only dream of at this point.

As for your “reverse merger”, that’s wishful thinking. The nPac is moving forward, building something stronger with schools like CSU, SDSU, and Boise State that bring actual value to the table. Meanwhile, the MWC and its “potential” are stuck trying to catch up. You can call it utopian, but the nPac is focused on growth and success—not clinging to the past. Enjoy watching from the sidelines.

I like this sock puppet, whoever you are. "HUGE AND INSURMOUNTABLE!!"

[Brew_Poke]

On 1/18/2025 at 5:33 PM, GO STATE said:

@Tripoda - Are you high?

Why would the new 12-PACk “merge” w/a conf w/UTEP, Grand Cyn, Davis, UNI, etc…

You are delusional!

 

 

Lol, future conference rankings. Dumber than normal, for you.

[Brew_Poke]

On 1/18/2025 at 6:09 PM, CSUProgressive said:

Exactly. The idea that anyone would prefer being in a conference with schools like UTEP and Grand Canyon over a lineup featuring Wazzu, Oregon State, and Gonzaga is laughable. The nPac is building a competitive, respectable conference with programs that bring value both athletically and academically. Meanwhile, the MWC is scrambling to hold things together with court battles and “potential” that never seems to materialize.

As for UNLV staying behind, it’s baffling. They have the market, the resources, and the ability to compete on a bigger stage. Avoiding the nPac makes no sense—unless they’re content with mediocrity. The nPac is the future, and those left behind will only have themselves to blame.

The MW initiated court battles? Liar.

[InnZoneU]

On 1/21/2025 at 9:29 AM, Brew_Poke said:

The MW initiated court battles? Liar.

It's a troll.  Don't feed.

[Iam4wyo]

On 1/18/2025 at 4:48 PM, CSUProgressive said:

Schools like CSU, ..... bring fresh energy and growing fanbases. 

OMG, this is hilarious!!!!  CSewe doesn't bring anything anywhere, let alone something "fresh" and "growing" unless you are talking about weed.  LMFAO!!!

[Spaztecs]

On 1/21/2025 at 10:29 AM, Brew_Poke said:

The MW initiated court battles? Liar.

Everything else he said was dead on.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/21/2025 at 4:31 PM, Spaztecs said:

Everything else he said was dead on.

He said the MWC is “scrambling to hold things together”. No they aren’t, the conference lineup is set through the next wave a realignment that will take place in the early thirties.

[KingSpartan]

Projection is a psychological defense mechanism where people attribute their own thoughts, feelings, or behaviors onto others. It's often unconscious, and can be a way to avoid dealing with difficult emotions.

[GO STATE]

On 1/21/2025 at 9:26 AM, Brew_Poke said:

Lol, future conference rankings. Dumber than normal, for you.

PRO-TIP:  Sour Grapes aren’t sexxxy 

[evilpoke]

On 1/24/2025 at 3:36 AM, GO STATE said:

PRO-TIP:  Sour Grapes aren’t sexxxy 

We're not the ones who decided to bring this into the courts.

[Spaztecs]

On 1/25/2025 at 12:53 PM, evilpoke said:

We're not the ones who decided to bring this into the courts.

Conference exits always go to the courts. There's always a slightly reduced settlement and the payments are stretched out.

Quit acting as if the MW has been singled out. Celebrate that we are in the club !

[GO STATE]

On 1/25/2025 at 11:53 AM, evilpoke said:

We're not the ones who decided to bring this into the courts.

Crying on a Msg Board, is analogous to going to Court?

In recent history, how many of these exit fees get negotiated or court order down?  A ballpark guess if fine.

 

[Headbutt]

On 1/25/2025 at 12:53 PM, evilpoke said:

We're not the ones who decided to bring this into the courts.

Gloria had all the cash she needed in her pocket.  And when I say Gloria, I include the MWC board since they rubber stamp or decide everything.  Then Gloria got nervous about getting screwed and decided to do a proactive screwing.  I don't blame her, but there was no way at that point that it wasn't going to end up in court.  Too bad really, if things had gone different she might've ended up the Pac commish.  I think she's head and shoulders over the lady the Pac has in charge right now.

Quit complaining.  You're gonna' get paid.  If you don't think it's enough, talk to UNLV and AFA.

[GO STATE]

On 1/24/2025 at 2:36 AM, GO STATE said:

PRO-TIP:  Sour Grapes aren’t sexxxy 

 

On 1/25/2025 at 11:53 AM, evilpoke said:

We're not the ones who decided to bring this into the courts.

 

On 1/26/2025 at 12:53 AM, GO STATE said:

Crying on a Msg Board, is analogous to going to Court?

In recent history, how many of these exit fees get negotiated or court order down?  A ballpark guess if fine.

 

@evilpoke - You never addressed my questions: 

[415hawaiiboy 2.0]

The awesome scenario is 2026 is the first major battle between online gambling companies for sports content. Other conferences don’t go to market until 2032 - way too late for these fast growing companies.
 

The MW with the top two most gambled on G5 schools will be valuable for these new players.  
 

- BetMGM moves to protect the Las Vegas turf.

- FanDuel TV moves to lock up Hawaii (along with the MW as a package)

- ESPN Bet becomes a more profitable franchise when they need the money the most (so they can be sold) at a higher valuation.  They will probably look to convert their existing inventory - so they have a built in advantage.

[evilpoke]

On 1/27/2025 at 8:38 PM, GO STATE said:

 

 

@evilpoke

I was referring to suing to get out of the poaching fees - 'souring' on the deal a year after it was signed.

As for the payment to get out of the league - most, if not all get lowered. That doesn't mean I don't want every last dime to stay with the MW - and I'm sure you feel the exact opposite.