Jim Posted January 17 Posted January 17 Full disclosue, this is a sock. The mods will know who this is, all I would ask is if they aren't ok with it to delete the thread rather than disclose who it is. It would be helpful to me to hear other people's perspective on dealing with this. I have someone close to me who is having severe anxiety and paranoia disorder. I want to see how the thread goes before I talk about the exact situation too much. In my situation, the person is convinced their real and imagined enemies are collaborating to sue them for everything they have, and to destroy their reputation. It's not true, and not rational. It's a tough thing to help someone with though, because they need someone to listen, but you don't want to validate their conspiracy theories and encourage them to go down rabbit holes. The person is on medication (Zolof) and in therapy, which is mitigating the panic attacks, but not the overall anxiety and depression. Medication was just started a couple weeks ago, so it's early days there. Quote
bornontheblue Posted January 17 Posted January 17 I understand dealing with anxiety and I will just leave it at that. There are good people in this forum with good hearts who can definitely help, or at least relate. I would be very careful about what you talk about on the board even if it is a sock because there are also some very nasty, and terrible people here too. 2 Quote
RSF Posted January 17 Posted January 17 Person seems to be getting 2 of the things they need - treatment and medication. They may need much more as things progress. The other 2 things are harder. Time and patience. None of this gets solved in a couple weeks, indeed it may be a life long condition to be managed. And that takes time to reconcile for everybody. I've never made a secret of the people in my life who have struggled. My father dealt with his depression until the day he died at 82. He had his stretches where he didnt manage it so well. And that wears on the loved ones as well. And my daughter deals with multiple issues. As she approaches 18, the signs are encouraging that she will, if not conquer them, be able control them into adulthood. But it's taxing on everybody, so keep in mind that you need to be strong when they can't. And don't be surprised if you find out you may need a little help as a result. Good luck. 3 Quote
Posturedoc Posted January 17 Posted January 17 On 1/17/2025 at 10:55 AM, Jim said: Full disclosue, this is a sock. The mods will know who this is, all I would ask is if they aren't ok with it to delete the thread rather than disclose who it is. It would be helpful to me to hear other people's perspective on dealing with this. I have someone close to me who is having severe anxiety and paranoia disorder. I want to see how the thread goes before I talk about the exact situation too much. In my situation, the person is convinced their real and imagined enemies are collaborating to sue them for everything they have, and to destroy their reputation. It's not true, and not rational. It's a tough thing to help someone with though, because they need someone to listen, but you don't want to validate their conspiracy theories and encourage them to go down rabbit holes. The person is on medication (Zolof) and in therapy, which is mitigating the panic attacks, but not the overall anxiety and depression. Medication was just started a couple weeks ago, so it's early days there. I have a brother-in-law who is mild-to-moderately schizophrenic. His condition parallels your description to some extent when it manifests, and even when it is controlled he has many odd behaviors. I don’t know enough about paranoia and anxiety disorders to know if those suffering from them respond similarly to “interventions”, but in his case, the only remedy during an episode is to get into a facility that deals with mental illnesses until his episode is under control (via medication). There is no possibility of a rational discussion with him during an episode, it’s either convince and help him to check into the care facility, or he spirals until he’s outside somewhere raving until the police show up and take him to the same care facility. Fortunately, it’s been a couple of decades since the latter scenario played out. Ill echo what RSF already wrote, patience on your part is important, as is acknowledging that this may be a lifelong condition that everybody in this person’s life will have to accept and adapt to. 2 Quote
Chile_Ute Posted January 17 Posted January 17 It’s a complicated ven diagragm and no one “circle” will fix it. Multifactorial/multidisciplinary approach is key. Sertraline works well for the chemical deficiency behind anxiety (and depression, OCD, PTSD, etc) but takes awhile to uptitrate. Therapy (biofeedback, counseling) is necessary/imperative. Likely will need stabilization medication along with sertraline. Then everyone in their personal circle needs to be on board with the plan for social support. tough road but agree with those above that patience (and compassion) are key. But truly depends on how receptive the patient is….paranoia/psychosis/borderline tendencies make it a difficult uphill battle. 1 Quote
StealthLobo Posted January 17 Posted January 17 From a medication pov, ssris can take 2-4 weeks+ for a full effect and even at that it can be a lot of hit and miss to find the right drug or combo of drugs for the right person. So as others have said, patience is key. Also, it's pertinent that a correct diagnosis is given. If they are experiencing paranoid delusions a psychiatrist might need to be seen to rule out schizophrenia. Otherwise antipsychotics would be an acceptable addition. Good luck. Mental health problems have a lot of variables and challenges to consider. 3 Quote
AztecAlien Posted January 17 Posted January 17 Some people need medication to treat anxiety disorders that can lead to depression. Cognitive behavioral therapy has also been proven to be an effective way to treat both. A lot of people are misdiagnosed. Finding the right diagnosis and therapist is also an important factor. Good luck. 1 Quote
tailingpermit Posted January 17 Posted January 17 On 1/17/2025 at 1:55 PM, Jim said: Full disclosue, this is a sock. The mods will know who this is, all I would ask is if they aren't ok with it to delete the thread rather than disclose who it is. It would be helpful to me to hear other people's perspective on dealing with this. I have someone close to me who is having severe anxiety and paranoia disorder. I want to see how the thread goes before I talk about the exact situation too much. In my situation, the person is convinced their real and imagined enemies are collaborating to sue them for everything they have, and to destroy their reputation. It's not true, and not rational. It's a tough thing to help someone with though, because they need someone to listen, but you don't want to validate their conspiracy theories and encourage them to go down rabbit holes. The person is on medication (Zolof) and in therapy, which is mitigating the panic attacks, but not the overall anxiety and depression. Medication was just started a couple weeks ago, so it's early days there. It takes a while for 1) the meds to kick in and 2) to build up to the proper dosage. Biggest thing is that when things get better and the person starts feeling normal again, do not let them stop the medication - it’s a very typical thing. I always have Xanax available in case of a severe panic attack, just having it helps mitigate the possibility. Hope this person starts feeling better soon and continues on the same path. We had a whole thread on this on the MWC board that I started. I’m not shy about my past issues with anxiety, that’s part of the healing path. 3 Quote
Hashbrowns Posted January 17 Posted January 17 On 1/17/2025 at 1:05 PM, tailingpermit said: It takes a while for 1) the meds to kick in and 2) to build up to the proper dosage. Biggest thing is that when things get better and the person starts feeling normal again, do not let them stop the medication - it’s a very typical thing. I’d add being wary about mixing alcohol (and other drugs) to the mix. Alcohol and THC can reduce anxiety in short term with low doses but can exacerbate symptoms over time or with higher dosages. *Not a medical pro, just what I’ve witnessed. I also think lack of sleep (caused by variety of problems) is a huge contributing factor. Again just personal anecdotes. Would be curious to hear actual medical folks opinions on ketamine therapy that seems to be popping up everywhere. Worlds most expensive placebo? 1 Quote
retrofade Posted January 17 Posted January 17 First things first, this is a serious thread and there will be zero tolerance for trolling here. You troll, you get a week vacation. I am diagnosed with bipolar disorder, general and social anxiety disorder (with avoidance and panic attacks), and autism spectrum disorder. Medication can be key to helping to mitigate some impacts of anxiety, though I've found for me personally anything short of large doses of Xanax or Klonipin doesn't do a lot of help for me. I take other medication for bipolar disorder, which does help to mitigate it some as well. I've personally made the decision not to use Xanax or Klonopin any longer, and haven't used either for about five years now. I have a very close friend with the same three conditions as I have, but she is medication resistant for biploar and anxiety unfortunately. It's good that the individual in your life is utilizing medication, but you're right that it's still early. I didn't experience much in the way of improvement on medication for nearly six months outside of taking medicine for acute panic attacks. I'm a firm believer in therapy and it has helped me deal with my symptoms and experiences, but it isn't perfect either. I haven't experienced the extreme paranoia that you're describing here, but I have had some bouts of it in the past. Listening to them doesn't mean that you have to validate what they're saying as being true, and in fact it can mean that you can gently push back, if you're careful about it. The friend that I mentioned has more experience with the paranoia, and she will call or text me when she's feeling that way in order to try and sanity check herself, and I do the same with her when I need help. That said, realizing that there was a problem was difficult for both of us to each realize independently, and both of us were able to do that through therapy. I can go into more detail here or if you'd prefer to DM me, I'd be more than happy to talk more about my experiences and offer up some suggestions or simply be a sounding board. 3 Quote
Jim Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 On 1/17/2025 at 11:49 AM, RSF said: Person seems to be getting 2 of the things they need - treatment and medication. They may need much more as things progress. The other 2 things are harder. Time and patience. None of this gets solved in a couple weeks, indeed it may be a life long condition to be managed. And that takes time to reconcile for everybody. I've never made a secret of the people in my life who have struggled. My father dealt with his depression until the day he died at 82. He had his stretches where he didnt manage it so well. And that wears on the loved ones as well. And my daughter deals with multiple issues. As she approaches 18, the signs are encouraging that she will, if not conquer them, be able control them into adulthood. But it's taxing on everybody, so keep in mind that you need to be strong when they can't. And don't be surprised if you find out you may need a little help as a result. Good luck. That’s helpful, thank you. Worrying about a teenage daughter with some signs of anxiety disorder would be very scary. What I cant figure out about this, is it didn’t manifest until middle age. And there are no substance abuse aspects to it either. Looking back, you can see signs, and they were always a little high strung. And there were signs that it was worsening, but nothing like this. The final descent to where they are now was very rapid and unexpected. The meds scare me, I know a guy who killed himself after he quit the meds cold turkey (which you arent supposed to do). I understand they are necessary to slow it down so they can sleep and eat, and not have a heart attack. Currently they are seeing a psychologist who does CBT, today the therapist suggested they might prefer/need a psychiatrist. We haven’t really talked through the implications of that yet. You know how a military base has a guard shack and that arm that stops traffic? Its like the guard is AWOL, and any crazy idea just drives through to their brain and gets mixed in the blender. Quote
StealthLobo Posted January 18 Posted January 18 On 1/18/2025 at 3:59 PM, Jim said: That’s helpful, thank you. Worrying about a teenage daughter with some signs of anxiety disorder would be very scary. What I cant figure out about this, is it didn’t manifest until middle age. And there are no substance abuse aspects to it either. Looking back, you can see signs, and they were always a little high strung. And there were signs that it was worsening, but nothing like this. The final descent to where they are now was very rapid and unexpected. The meds scare me, I know a guy who killed himself after he quit the meds cold turkey (which you arent supposed to do). I understand they are necessary to slow it down so they can sleep and eat, and not have a heart attack. Currently they are seeing a psychologist who does CBT, today the therapist suggested they might prefer/need a psychiatrist. We haven’t really talked through the implications of that yet. You know how a military base has a guard shack and that arm that stops traffic? Its like the guard is AWOL, and any crazy idea just drives through to their brain and gets mixed in the blender. "What I cant figure out about this, is it didn’t manifest until middle age." "The final descent to where they are now was very rapid and unexpected." This is kinda concerning. Sounds more like early onset dementia than schizophrenia then. Any traumatic head injuries? Falls? Etc? Quote
Jim Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 On 1/17/2025 at 7:10 PM, StealthLobo said: What I cant figure out about this, is it didn’t manifest until middle age. This is kinda concerning. Sounds more like early onset dementia than schizophrenia then. Any traumatic head injuries? Falls? Etc? No, no physical trauma. And no history of early dementia in the family. Lots of sustained high levels of stress though. The labs they ran all cane back normal. Quote
StealthLobo Posted January 18 Posted January 18 On 1/18/2025 at 4:30 PM, Jim said: No, no physical trauma. And no history of early dementia in the family. Lots of sustained high levels of stress though. The labs they ran all cane back normal. That's tough, at least they've pretty much ruled out stroke or tia. Off the top of my head, I'm unsure about the correlation between high levels of stress and permanent mental illness disorders, but it seems more psych than neuro. 1 Quote
RSF Posted January 18 Posted January 18 On 1/17/2025 at 8:59 PM, Jim said: That’s helpful, thank you. Worrying about a teenage daughter with some signs of anxiety disorder would be very scary. What I cant figure out about this, is it didn’t manifest until middle age. And there are no substance abuse aspects to it either. Looking back, you can see signs, and they were always a little high strung. And there were signs that it was worsening, but nothing like this. The final descent to where they are now was very rapid and unexpected. The meds scare me, I know a guy who killed himself after he quit the meds cold turkey (which you arent supposed to do). I understand they are necessary to slow it down so they can sleep and eat, and not have a heart attack. Currently they are seeing a psychologist who does CBT, today the therapist suggested they might prefer/need a psychiatrist. We haven’t really talked through the implications of that yet. You know how a military base has a guard shack and that arm that stops traffic? Its like the guard is AWOL, and any crazy idea just drives through to their brain and gets mixed in the blender. My father’s depression didn’t appear until he was in his mid 40s. It was diagnosed as a chemical imbalance, triggered by a negative event. Spent some time in the hospital. He was able to ultimately to manage and live a normal life, but it was a struggle at times. And when he did struggle, I was the one who usually filled in as his unlicensed therapist. Which was a burden in later years as I dealt with the issues of my own life. But, as they say, it’s tough raising parents… 2 Quote
Jim Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 On 1/17/2025 at 2:42 PM, retrofade said: First things first, this is a serious thread and there will be zero tolerance for trolling here. You troll, you get a week vacation. I am diagnosed with bipolar disorder, general and social anxiety disorder (with avoidance and panic attacks), and autism spectrum disorder. Medication can be key to helping to mitigate some impacts of anxiety, though I've found for me personally anything short of large doses of Xanax or Klonipin doesn't do a lot of help for me. I take other medication for bipolar disorder, which does help to mitigate it some as well. I've personally made the decision not to use Xanax or Klonopin any longer, and haven't used either for about five years now. I have a very close friend with the same three conditions as I have, but she is medication resistant for biploar and anxiety unfortunately. It's good that the individual in your life is utilizing medication, but you're right that it's still early. I didn't experience much in the way of improvement on medication for nearly six months outside of taking medicine for acute panic attacks. I'm a firm believer in therapy and it has helped me deal with my symptoms and experiences, but it isn't perfect either. I haven't experienced the extreme paranoia that you're describing here, but I have had some bouts of it in the past. Listening to them doesn't mean that you have to validate what they're saying as being true, and in fact it can mean that you can gently push back, if you're careful about it. The friend that I mentioned has more experience with the paranoia, and she will call or text me when she's feeling that way in order to try and sanity check herself, and I do the same with her when I need help. That said, realizing that there was a problem was difficult for both of us to each realize independently, and both of us were able to do that through therapy. I can go into more detail here or if you'd prefer to DM me, I'd be more than happy to talk more about my experiences and offer up some suggestions or simply be a sounding board. Thank you for this. I may take you up on the DM offer. One thing that's really hard to watch, is the puzzle creation obsession. They will take a conversation from three years ago, along with random event involving the same person 6 months ago, and a third event or conversation with that person and someone else a week ago, and twist the perception of it to form a puzzle that fits together to equal the life destroying lawsuit. They feel better while they are explaining the puzzle, but after an hour or two of telling the story and feeling like they've solved the mystery, we are no better off than before it started. In fact they are in a worse place. The next day its a new puzzle, or a new version of the previous puzzle. Over and over, and they can't help themselves but to keep putting puzzles together. Did you ever have a moment where you snapped back and felt like yourself again? Or is it not like that. Something where you are in a better place, but not the same person you were before? Maybe not worse than before the diagnosis, but not the same either, if you know what I mean. Quote
CV147 Posted January 18 Posted January 18 I lost a good friend to schizophrenia. He's alive but he is no longer the person I knew. He and I hung out like every day, and we even became roommates. He was probably 21 or 22 when it happened. One day, probably about 2002, I was hanging out with other friends in our apartment and he came downstairs (it was a split level) and said "I know what you're all saying about me when I'm not here." We laughed and thought he was joking but he was dead serious. He became withdrawn, started to drift away, and began cutting a tattoo out of his hand. We pleaded with him to get help and thankfully he did, but he had to move back home and basically start his life all over. He changed his name (we called him a nickname but he insisted on being called another nickname). His father also had schizophrenia and died by suicide when my friend was just a baby. So I don't have a lot of advice, but I know how it feels to have someone you know become someone you don't know. 1 Quote
tailingpermit Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 1/17/2025 at 10:42 PM, RSF said: My father’s depression didn’t appear until he was in his mid 40s. It was diagnosed as a chemical imbalance, triggered by a negative event. Spent some time in the hospital. He was able to ultimately to manage and live a normal life, but it was a struggle at times. And when he did struggle, I was the one who usually filled in as his unlicensed therapist. Which was a burden in later years as I dealt with the issues of my own life. But, as they say, it’s tough raising parents… What were the symptoms of depression if you don’t mind me asking? Quote
RSF Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 1/18/2025 at 7:30 PM, tailingpermit said: What were the symptoms of depression if you don’t mind me asking? When I came home from college after my freshman year, he was spending all his time in bed and subsisting on cigarettes and coffee. In his case, the signs weren’t subtle. He wasn’t listening to my mom, so it fell to me to convince him it was time to go to the hospital. It took 2 separate trips, but by the time I headed back to Texas, he was at least on a better path. I considered dropping out and going to the junior college for a while, but ironically it was him who convinced me not to. So I’ve always been my parents’ keeper. 1 1 Quote
SWspartan Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 1/17/2025 at 2:42 PM, retrofade said: First things first, this is a serious thread and there will be zero tolerance for trolling here. You troll, you get a week vacation. I am diagnosed with bipolar disorder, general and social anxiety disorder (with avoidance and panic attacks), and autism spectrum disorder. Medication can be key to helping to mitigate some impacts of anxiety, though I've found for me personally anything short of large doses of Xanax or Klonipin doesn't do a lot of help for me. I take other medication for bipolar disorder, which does help to mitigate it some as well. I've personally made the decision not to use Xanax or Klonopin any longer, and haven't used either for about five years now. I have a very close friend with the same three conditions as I have, but she is medication resistant for biploar and anxiety unfortunately. It's good that the individual in your life is utilizing medication, but you're right that it's still early. I didn't experience much in the way of improvement on medication for nearly six months outside of taking medicine for acute panic attacks. I'm a firm believer in therapy and it has helped me deal with my symptoms and experiences, but it isn't perfect either. I haven't experienced the extreme paranoia that you're describing here, but I have had some bouts of it in the past. Listening to them doesn't mean that you have to validate what they're saying as being true, and in fact it can mean that you can gently push back, if you're careful about it. The friend that I mentioned has more experience with the paranoia, and she will call or text me when she's feeling that way in order to try and sanity check herself, and I do the same with her when I need help. That said, realizing that there was a problem was difficult for both of us to each realize independently, and both of us were able to do that through therapy. I can go into more detail here or if you'd prefer to DM me, I'd be more than happy to talk more about my experiences and offer up some suggestions or simply be a sounding board. I don't have any real knowledge on the subject, I just stopped by to wish you well. 👍 Quote
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