Malachi Nelson and Maddox Madsen - How close was the competition

[Soupslam]

On 1/10/2025 at 11:17 AM, The Barber said:

What is the QB situation at Boise St. next season?  

Is it Maddox Madsen starting again?   I only watched parts of a few Boise State games this season, and he looked pretty short, with a mediocre arm.   The kid is probably a gamer---but Boise State has had a lot better QBs over the years.

Also, is Dirk Koetter retiring after this season?    He is a great coach -- would love to see him come back as the OC.

 

Looks like Boise State has a challenging schedule next season.   Hopefully they have some good RB talent in the pipeline:

https://fbschedules.com/2025-boise-state-football-schedule/

 

 

Madsen will be the starter and what you say about his stature and arm is true. Jeanty carried the team this year. Teams stacked the box leaving the short throws open. Madsen won’t have that luxury next year although the run game should still be good, just not as scary as Jeanty was to this years opponents. 

All our backup QBs have less than ten snaps total. If “Rudy” goes down we’re in big trouble. And given the coaching staffs bromance with Rudy we’re going to have a hard time getting a decent backup from the portal. Why come to Boise State if you know you aren’t going to play. 

[bornontheblue]

On 1/10/2025 at 11:51 AM, Soupslam said:

Madsen will be the starter and what you say about his stature and arm is true. Jeanty carried the team this year. Teams stacked the box leaving the short throws open. Madsen won’t have that luxury next year although the run game should still be good, just not as scary as Jeanty was to this years opponents. 

All our backup QBs have less than ten snaps total. If “Rudy” goes down we’re in big trouble. And given the coaching staffs bromance with Rudy we’re going to have a hard time getting a decent backup from the portal. Why come to Boise State if you know you aren’t going to play. 

Do you kinda feel like small budget teams like Boise State are going to start moneyballing this like the A's of the early 2000's. 

Its cheaper to buy Offensive Lineman , TEs, and a stable of 4-5 decent but not elite running backs. Use a cheap game manager as a QB and bring back the Power I and the wishbone formation. 

They can invent a new metric of yards gained per dollar spent etc. 

 

 

[Soupslam]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:08 PM, bornontheblue said:

Do you kinda feel like small budget teams like Boise State are going to start moneyballing this like the A's of the early 2000's. 

Its cheaper to buy Offensive Lineman , TEs, and a stable of 4-5 decent but not elite running backs. Use a game manager as a QB and bring back the Power I and the wishbone formation. 

They can invent a new metric of yards gained per dollar spent etc. 

 

 

Games are still won in the trenches, but the four and five star linemen aren’t coming to Boise State unless we’re willing to pay the big NIL money to bring them here. I guess that could be a strategy although it hasn’t been manifested yet that I can see. We do have a couple of Oline guys in Randolph and Casey that likely could make a lot more money elsewhere. Our edge rusher LVD also fits in that category. 

[OrediggerPoke]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:08 PM, bornontheblue said:

Do you kinda feel like small budget teams like Boise State are going to start moneyballing this like the A's of the early 2000's. 

Its cheaper to buy Offensive Lineman , TEs, and a stable of 4-5 decent but not elite running backs. Use a game manager as a QB and bring back the Power I and the wishbone formation. 

They can invent a new metric of yards gained per dollar spent etc. 

 

 

I didn’t realize Boise was a ‘small budget’ team.  Their fanbase had me believing them to be spenders and able to compete with any team in the country.  
 

But I’ve been saying for years that the small market teams who will be successful in an NIL world will have to develop a team oriented system that is less reliant on stars.  Harding University of Division 2 and Paul Simmons’ version of the flexbone seems to be a great blueprint.  

[Soupslam]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:17 PM, OrediggerPoke said:

I didn’t realize Boise was a ‘small budget’ team.  Their fanbase had me believing them to be spenders and able to compete with any team in the country.  
 

But I’ve been saying for years that the small market teams who will be successful in an NIL world will have to develop a team oriented system that is less reliant on stars.  Harding University of Division 2 and Paul Simmons’ version of the flexbone seems to be a great blueprint.  

Totally untrue although Im sure we outspend most teams in the MWC. Although the AD and coaching staff are making a big push to significantly increase the NIL pot. 

[bornontheblue]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:17 PM, OrediggerPoke said:

I didn’t realize Boise was a ‘small budget’ team.  Their fanbase had me believing them to be spenders and able to compete with any team in the country.  
 

But I’ve been saying for years that the small market teams who will be successful in an NIL world will have to develop a team oriented system that is less reliant on stars.  Harding University of Division 2 and Paul Simmons’ version of the flexbone seems to be a great blueprint.  

We are a poor school. I don't think our athletic Budget is in the top third of the MWC. It could be different now, Dickey is doing a great job. 

I agree with your sentiment that poor schools like us will evolve to compete on a team/metrics based system like the Oakland A's did 25 years ago. 

[OrediggerPoke]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:22 PM, bornontheblue said:

We are a poor school. I don't think our athletic Budget is in the top third of the MWC. It could be different now, Dickey is doing a great job. 

I agree with your sentiment that poor schools like us will evolve to compete on a team/metrics based system like the Oakland A's did 25 years ago. 

https://www.collegefootballdawgs.com/post/can-the-flexbone-offense-pave-the-way-for-harding-in-2024
 

Watching Harding film seems very much like the Oakland As roster strategy.  I was advocating on Wyonation for Sawvell to be fired and for Wyoming to go all in with a flexbone type program that develops players for a particular system.  Those players will then be less desirable by the bigger programs because they won’t be plug and play.  And to the extent you lose a few players, you backfill with the guys you already have versus seeking whatever leftover you can find in the portal after the big boys have taken their choice.  

[Soupslam]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:22 PM, bornontheblue said:

We are a poor school. I don't think our athletic Budget is in the top third of the MWC. It could be different now, Dickey is doing a great job. 

I agree with your sentiment that poor schools like us will evolve to compete on a team/metrics based system like the Oakland A's did 25 years ago. 

I think you can do that by recruiting two and three star kids that can be developed and have the character intangibles to play above their weight class so to speak. The problem becomes the P4 teams luring them away with much bigger NIL money. 

[bornontheblue]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:27 PM, OrediggerPoke said:

https://www.collegefootballdawgs.com/post/can-the-flexbone-offense-pave-the-way-for-harding-in-2024
 

Watching Harding film seems very much like the Oakland As roster strategy.  I was advocating on Wyonation for Sawvell to be fired and for Wyoming to go all in with a program that develops players for a particular system.  Those players will then be less desirable by the bigger programs because they won’t be plug and play.  And to the extent you lose a few players, you backfill with the guys you already have versus seeking whatever leftover you can find in the portal after the big boys have taken their choice.  

If this is true and poor schools start going to an old fashioned offense like the Wishbone that relies more on teamwork that individual stars it will become full circle. 

The Lavell Edwards/Mike Leach Air Raid Style offense developed in the 70s because the Oklahomas , USCs, and Nebraskas of the world were hogging up all the talent to run the wishbone. Smaller schools evolved into more of a passing attack with which could exploit offenses who were built to stop a heavy rushing attack. 

[Soupslam]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:27 PM, OrediggerPoke said:

https://www.collegefootballdawgs.com/post/can-the-flexbone-offense-pave-the-way-for-harding-in-2024
 

Watching Harding film seems very much like the Oakland As roster strategy.  I was advocating on Wyonation for Sawvell to be fired and for Wyoming to go all in with a flexbone type program that develops players for a particular system.  Those players will then be less desirable by the bigger programs because they won’t be plug and play.  And to the extent you lose a few players, you backfill with the guys you already have versus seeking whatever leftover you can find in the portal after the big boys have taken their choice.  

That’s pretty much how the service academies stay competitive..

[OrediggerPoke]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:30 PM, Soupslam said:

I think you can do that by recruiting two and three star kids that can be developed and have the character intangibles to play above their weight class so to speak. The problem becomes the P4 teams luring them away with much bigger NIL money. 

That’s the problem.  You spend the resources to develop that player and get one year of playing benefit realistically.  But if you develop players that don’t fit the systems of the big boys, well there’s your key.  

[OrediggerPoke]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:35 PM, Soupslam said:

That’s pretty much how the service academies stay competitive..

Yep.  But smaller schools can do it with less constraints than the academies and presumably could be more successful as Harding has demonstrated.  

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:22 PM, bornontheblue said:

We are a poor school. I don't think our athletic Budget is in the top third of the MWC. It could be different now, Dickey is doing a great job. 

I agree with your sentiment that poor schools like us will evolve to compete on a team/metrics based system like the Oakland A's did 25 years ago. 

We just don't have the allocated funding other teams do.  Or allocated funding was lowest in the MWC.  Revenue generated from boosters (ticket sales, BAA contributions, donations) and sponsors is at the top.

JD was milking money for facilities upgrades.  We are well ahead of schedule there now.  I expect that focus to shift more towards NIL based on recent statements.

[bornontheblue]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:42 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

We just don't have the allocated funding other teams do.  Or allocated funding was lowest in the MWC.  Revenue generated from boosters (ticket sales, BAA contributions, donations) and sponsors is at the top.

JD was milking money for facilities upgrades.  We are well ahead of schedule there now.  I expect that focus to shift more towards NIL based on recent statements.

I thought I heard a while back that the salary pool for our assistant coaches is on the low end compared to our conference mates. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:48 PM, bornontheblue said:

I thought I heard a while back that the salary pool for our assistant coaches is on the low end compared to our conference mates. 

It is but we are hiring internally a lot, guys without much experience away from Boise.  So, we are paying them above their market value already.  This was the first year for an unproven staff outside Dirk who was doing it for charity basically.

We were paying Coach Pete a base of 2.3 million with incentives close to 3 back in 2012 dollars and his staff made almost double what ours does now, because that's what the market dictated.  

We have raised a metric shiy ton of money very quickly for facilities.  I expect a huge boost to NIL now that we have switched focus.  It seems JVM (700k offer from Oregon), Casey (premium LT and future day 2 draft pick, easily worth 1 million in the NIL market) Randolph and Lauter have been given assurances they will get paid 

[InnZoneU]

On 1/10/2025 at 11:56 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

It is but we are hiring internally a lot, guys without much experience away from Boise.  So, we are paying them above their market value already.  This was the first year for an unproven staff outside Dirk who was doing it for charity basically.

We were paying Coach Pete a base of 2.3 million with incentives close to 3 back in 2012 dollars and his staff made almost double what ours does now, because that's what the market dictated.  

We have raised a metric shiy ton of money very quickly for facilities.  I expect a huge boost to NIL now that we have switched focus.  It seems JVM (700k offer from Oregon), Casey (premium LT and future day 2 draft pick, easily worth 1 million in the NIL market) Randolph and Lauter have been given assurances they will get paid 

I'm confused.  Is Boise wiping their Whitezilla balls over the rest of the peons in the MWC?  You post about Boise kicking everyone's ass in fundraising, funding, etc. and then turn around and say you're poor when it suits. Which one is it?

[bornontheblue]

On 1/10/2025 at 1:15 PM, InnZoneU said:

I'm confused.  Is Boise wiping their Whitezilla balls over the rest of the peons in the MWC?  You post about Boise kicking everyone's ass in fundraising, funding, etc. and then turn around and say you're poor when it suits. Which one is it?

He didn't say Boise is poor I did, and we are. 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 1/10/2025 at 1:15 PM, InnZoneU said:

I'm confused.  Is Boise wiping their Whitezilla balls over the rest of the peons in the MWC?  You post about Boise kicking everyone's ass in fundraising, funding, etc. and then turn around and say you're poor when it suits. Which one is it?

No, I don't.  We DO kick everyone's ass in funding and fundraising.  We also get, the fewest allocated funds.

Our salary pool is not an indication of what we can afford.  It is an indication of what those coaches are worth on the Market.  An OC who has only been a position coach for a few years at his Alma Matter and one year as Co-OC is not worth more than the 475k he was offered to be our OC.  It also doesn't mean he wasn't a better hire than a flashy proven OC that would command a million.

On 1/10/2025 at 1:22 PM, bornontheblue said:

He didn't say Boise is poor I did, and we are. 

 

We secured 300M in funding for JDs master athletics plan in like 18 months...the Amount of money in the Valley is significant and our donations eclipse most the in the G5 outside of FedEx and Memphis.

Dickey was kicking the tires for facilities upgrades and made it fucking rain.  He will do the same for NIL now that is his focus.  At least by G6 standards.

Boise is one of 18 athletic departments in FBS to run in the black.  And that is with the lowest allocated funds in the MWC.  

We don't have a MEGA doner or a P4 TV contract but that's about it

[halfmanhalfbronco]

I would say only losing 1 player from the team that suited up for the playoffs and kept all our stars is an indication we expect our NIL pool to be much improved and promised as much

[bornontheblue]

On 1/10/2025 at 1:56 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No, I don't.  We DO kick everyone's ass in funding and fundraising.  We also get, the fewest allocated funds.

Our salary pool is not an indication of what we can afford.  It is an indication of what those coaches are worth on the Market.  An OC who has only been a position coach for a few years at his Alma Matter and one year as Co-OC is not worth more than the 475k he was offered to be our OC.  It also doesn't mean he wasn't a better hire than a flashy proven OC that would command a million.

We secured 300M in funding for JDs master athletics plan in like 18 months...the Amount of money in the Valley is significant and our donations eclipse most the in the G5 outside of FedEx and Memphis.

Dickey was kicking the tires for facilities upgrades and made it fucking rain.  He will do the same for NIL now that is his focus.  At least by G6 standards.

Boise is one of 18 athletic departments in FBS to run in the black.  And that is with the lowest allocated funds in the MWC.  

We don't have a MEGA doner or a P4 TV contract but that's about it

Compared to all of college athletics we are poor, and scrappy. We get a lot done with the resources we have.  We do pretty good for MWC standards, but we are not even the best there.  The mid and lower level P4 schools kick our ass in revenue , and athletic spending. 

Other schools have a much deeper pool of wealthy alumni than we do. SMU is an example. They pretty much bought their way into the ACC by giving up any Media rights money, and their alumni are paying the bills of the athletic department. We are a younf university. It takes time to build up a comparable donor base. 

 

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