Elmo vs. MAGA

[CoachKenFTW]

On 12/28/2024 at 1:15 PM, FresnoFacts said:

Trump picked a side. He is supporting H-1Bs/Elon/Vivek.

Grab the popcorn and wait to see how some of MAGA reacts.

.

President-elect Trump told The Post Saturday he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.

“I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,” Trump said by phone, referring to the H-1B program, which permits companies to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.  

“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program,” added Trump, who restricted access to foreign worker visas in his first administration and has been critical of the program in the past.

https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/

.

Elon said the visas are for the top engineering talent and other skilled immigrants. But Trump says he has many H-1Bs on his properties? I didn't know it took a top engineer to change bed sheets.

I'l presume you've never been a CEO at anything, let alone a CEO of a corporate empire.

Here is a partial listing of positions at some of the Trump Organizaton's resorts

All Trump Organization job titles | Indeed.com

[FresnoFacts]

On 12/28/2024 at 1:38 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

I'l presume you've never been a CEO at anything, let alone a CEO of a corporate empire.

Here is a partial listing of positions at some of the Trump Organizaton's resorts

All Trump Organization job titles | Indeed.com

LOL, funny how some people take a joke seriously.

 

FYI, it is not just high skill H-1Bs. Trump Org also uses H-2Bs to fill lower skill jobs instead of hiring US workers.

In 2023, just at Mar-a-Lago they applied for over 100 H-2Bs including for 53 waitstaff, 7 hotel desk clerks, 17 housekeepers, 5 first-line supervisors, 24 cooks and 5 bartenders. That is up from the 61 H-2Bs Mar-a-Lago had in 2018.

I guess our real problem is an acute labor shortage in the US. We cannot even find waiters and maids in our own country.

[tailingpermit]

On 12/28/2024 at 5:17 PM, FresnoFacts said:

LOL, funny how some people take a joke seriously.

 

FYI, it is not just high skill H-1Bs. Trump Org also uses H-2Bs to fill lower skill jobs instead of hiring US workers.

In 2023, just at Mar-a-Lago they applied for over 100 H-2Bs including for 53 waitstaff, 7 hotel desk clerks, 17 housekeepers, 5 first-line supervisors, 24 cooks and 5 bartenders. That is up from the 61 H-2Bs Mar-a-Lago had in 2018.

I guess our real problem is an acute labor shortage in the US. We cannot even find waiters and maids in our own country.

When I lived in Key West all the big name hotels had contractors in charge of employment, mostly foreign workers from the Baltics. 

[azgreg]

I think anybody who wants to come here should be allowed to as long as they pass a rigorous vetting.

[retrofade]

Now they think the whole thing was a psyop campaign.

[CoachKenFTW]

On 12/28/2024 at 2:17 PM, FresnoFacts said:

LOL, funny how some people take a joke seriously.

 

FYI, it is not just high skill H-1Bs. Trump Org also uses H-2Bs to fill lower skill jobs instead of hiring US workers.

In 2023, just at Mar-a-Lago they applied for over 100 H-2Bs including for 53 waitstaff, 7 hotel desk clerks, 17 housekeepers, 5 first-line supervisors, 24 cooks and 5 bartenders. That is up from the 61 H-2Bs Mar-a-Lago had in 2018.

I guess our real problem is an acute labor shortage in the US. We cannot even find waiters and maids in our own country.

Dude, chill on the comedy central. Nothing you TDSers post is intentionally funny.

The back peddling made me chuckle though

[RSF]

On 12/29/2024 at 8:03 AM, CoachKenFTW said:

Dude, chill on the comedy central. Nothing you TDSers post is intentionally funny.

The back peddling made me chuckle though

Damn…another irony meter up in flames…

[halfmanhalfbronco]

Musk continues to proove why he is the greatest man of his generation.

His next feat?  Making the GOP face their MAGA racist problem.  

 

[thehowlin]

[The San Diegan]

Haven't read through the thread but am somewhat familiar with the issue and as someone who has brought over s/w engineers on H1Bs and knows more than a few people living and working here on an H1B, thought I might chime in.

The simple fact is we don't graduate enough s/w engineers/CS majors to meet industry demand; we need H1B workers to fill these jobs we cannot fill domestically due to the fact we have cultivated a lifestyle that allows our children the luxury of choosing to become art history majors. 

As much as I deplore the idea of a nascent oligarchy supplanting the greatest experiment in free democracy since Ancient Greece, Ramaswamy and Musk are (at least partially) right in their protestations - this is indeed a cultural issue. We have become intellectually lazy as a people, as we have failed to curate the value of learning and/or an education. By contrast, until this most recent generation, every kid in India could grow up to become whatever they wanted, so long as that career was either a doctor or engineer.

So yes - we have systemic issues in this country that need to be addressed, and until we do, so long as there is continued demand in SV for highly-skilled tech workers, we will need to use H1B visas as a stopgap to meet demand.

However... what I don't hear from Elmo is the understanding or recognition that this should be a temporary solution until we can, and have, roadmaps that provide pathways for more Americans to learn to code. When I see all these small brick-and-mortar coding academies, I feel like I am seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel.

And Elmo and his billionaire buddies are in the unique position to help define policy to make that a reality. Which would be a better choice than getting into online flame wars with the MAGA rank and file.

[FresnoFacts]

On 12/29/2024 at 6:03 AM, CoachKenFTW said:

Dude, chill on the comedy central. Nothing you TDSers post is intentionally funny.

The back peddling made me chuckle though

I'm amused by snowflakes who cannot take a joke about Trump.

[FresnoFacts]

I have several friends who started on H-1Bs and are now on Green Cards. Not all were in tech though.

Although this started over H-1Bs and tech positions, I would be interested in hearing from the CPAs on the board about their industry.

Looking at the top H-1B sponsors, I see the expected tech companies. But I also see 3 of the Big 4 accounting firms among the 50 largest users of H-1B. Drilling into each of those it is not just tech positions but also associates and analysts.

https://www.myvisajobs.com/reports/h1b/

Are we not producing enough accountants and financial people in the US? Or is it as one of my H-1B friends said, the Big 4 requires longer hours than many are willing to work?

[retrofade]

On 12/29/2024 at 10:44 AM, FresnoFacts said:

I'm amused by snowflakes who cannot take a joke about Trump.

Every perceived slight against Trump is taken as one against themselves as well. 

[The San Diegan]

A couple additional thoughts...

First, I do think the H1B process needs to be reformed to stop Indian s/w companies (e.g., Cognizant) from completely abusing the H1B system to practice predatory capitalism by undercutting onshore companies by "importing" cheap temporary offshore labor to staff onshore projects.

Second, an overwhelming majority (80ish%?) of Indian programmers are just bad s/w engineers. They are mediocre coders at best and will write code to an obviously flawed requirement without ever thinking about it. I mean, coders are kind of a PITA under even the best of circumstances, but this singular frustration with Indian devs costs a lot of companies a lot of money. 

[RSF]

On 12/29/2024 at 1:19 PM, The San Diegan said:

A couple additional thoughts...

First, I do think the H1B process needs to be reformed to stop Indian s/w companies (e.g., Cognizant) from completely abusing the H1B system to practice predatory capitalism by undercutting onshore companies by "importing" cheap temporary offshore labor to staff onshore projects.

Second, an overwhelming majority (80ish%?) of Indian programmers are just bad s/w engineers. They are mediocre coders at best and will write code to an obviously flawed requirement without ever thinking about it. I mean, coders are kind of a PITA under even the best of circumstances, but this singular frustration with Indian devs costs a lot of companies a lot of money. 

I agree about the foreign coders. Most do just fine following specs but are usually lost when having to do much in the way of analysis. Because they’re not taught to do so. Eventually they’ll catch up…but I’ll be retired by then. 

[The San Diegan]

On 12/29/2024 at 12:29 PM, RSF said:

I agree about the foreign coders. Most do just fine following specs but are usually lost when having to do much in the way of analysis. Because they’re not taught to do so. Eventually they’ll catch up…but I’ll be retired by then. 

It's a cultural thing - in the Indian education system, you memorize and regurgitate information verbatim without any critical analysis. I do think that has changed/is changing at the best institutions, but for every engineer who graduates from an IIT (or who went to college here), there are two dozen who went to a local institution where this shift is yet to have trickled down. 

I'll also add - and I'm sure you'll agree - that customers rarely understand their own requirements.

[RSF]

On 12/29/2024 at 3:05 PM, The San Diegan said:

It's a cultural thing - in the Indian education system, you memorize and regurgitate information verbatim without any critical analysis. I do think that has changed/is changing at the best institutions, but for every engineer who graduates from an IIT (or who went to college here), there are two dozen who went to a local institution where this shift is yet to have trickled down. 

I'll also add - and I'm sure you'll agree - that customers rarely understand their own requirements.

Many times, yes. But more often they want a Cadillac but only pay for a Chevy. 

[The San Diegan]

On 12/29/2024 at 1:15 PM, RSF said:

Many times, yes. But more often they want a Cadillac but only pay for a Chevy. 

Effectively and efficiently managing the pathway between the two is like Wordle for grown-ups. 😀

[Chile_Ute]

On 12/29/2024 at 10:41 AM, The San Diegan said:

Haven't read through the thread but am somewhat familiar with the issue and as someone who has brought over s/w engineers on H1Bs and knows more than a few people living and working here on an H1B, thought I might chime in.

The simple fact is we don't graduate enough s/w engineers/CS majors to meet industry demand; we need H1B workers to fill these jobs we cannot fill domestically due to the fact we have cultivated a lifestyle that allows our children the luxury of choosing to become art history majors. 

As much as I deplore the idea of a nascent oligarchy supplanting the greatest experiment in free democracy since Ancient Greece, Ramaswamy and Musk are (at least partially) right in their protestations - this is indeed a cultural issue. We have become intellectually lazy as a people, as we have failed to curate the value of learning and/or an education. By contrast, until this most recent generation, every kid in India could grow up to become whatever they wanted, so long as that career was either a doctor or engineer.

So yes - we have systemic issues in this country that need to be addressed, and until we do, so long as there is continued demand in SV for highly-skilled tech workers, we will need to use H1B visas as a stopgap to meet demand.

However... what I don't hear from Elmo is the understanding or recognition that this should be a temporary solution until we can, and have, roadmaps that provide pathways for more Americans to learn to code. When I see all these small brick-and-mortar coding academies, I feel like I am seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel.

And Elmo and his billionaire buddies are in the unique position to help define policy to make that a reality. Which would be a better choice than getting into online flame wars with the MAGA rank and file.

Mostly agree but I think the light is an oncoming train.  Until we hit critical mass in anything, humans will do jack shit proactively….and in America that behavior is on steroids.  We can’t be inconvenienced.

[The San Diegan]

On 12/29/2024 at 2:33 PM, Chile_Ute said:

Mostly agree but I think the light is an oncoming train.  Until we hit critical mass in anything, humans will do jack shit proactively….and in America that behavior is on steroids.  We can’t be inconvenienced.

"Americans will always do the right thing, once they've exhausted every other option." - Winston Churchill (attributed)