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Trump is after Greenland again

retrofade

By retrofade
in Politics

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halfmanhalfbronco Advanced Member

halfmanhalfbronco

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 2:58 PM, bornontheblue said:

China is trying to replace us in that role 

They will probably succeed because we are too busy with political infighting here to focus on long range global strategy 

They control and maintain two of the locks lol.  Yeah, CCP influence is growing in Central and Latin America cus we are idiots.

halfmanhalfbronco Advanced Member

halfmanhalfbronco

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 3:00 PM, Old_SD_Dude said:

I really think your views are out of date. According to: https://www.foreignassistance.gov/cd/panama/

we provided $73M in foreign aid to Panama last year. China in 2024 invested $1.3 billion in canal-related infrastructure. I also suspect that Panamanians views on their security threats would vary drastically from ours. We invaded them after all and sent in the Marines several times before that. 

China also got to control two locks out of the deal as mentioned above.  

Bullying probably isn't the best way to gain influence....

  • Like 1
FresnoFacts Advanced Member

FresnoFacts

Posted
Posted

We would have to renegotiate that pesky "Treaty Concerning the Permanent Neutrality and Operation of the Panama Canal" to get lower fees for the US navy or commercial ships. Roughly 40 other countries have also agreed to respect that treaty. It basically says everyone get treated the same even on fees.

The treaty does give US vessels of war a priority passage (jump the canal waiting line) during war or emergencies.

But in terms of fees, the Neutrality Treaty says everyone gets treated the same. I read it that there can be no discrimination and no preferential treatment on fees.

.

In Article II - "The Republic of Panama declares the neutrality of the Canal in order that both in time of peace and in time of war it shall remain secure and open to peaceful transit by the vessels of all nations on terms of entire equality, so that there will be no discrimination against any nation, or its citizens or subjects, concerning the conditions or charges of transit, or for any other reason, and so that the Canal, and therefore the Isthmus of Panama, shall not be the target of reprisals in any armed conflict between other nations of the world."

And in Article III - "For purposes of the security, efficiency and proper maintenance of the Canal the following rules shall apply:

(a) The Canal shall be operated efficiently in accordance with conditions of transit through the Canal, and rules and regulations that shall be just, equitable and reasonable, and limited to those necessary for safe navigation and efficient, sanitary operation of the Canal;

(b) Ancillary services necessary for transit through the Canal shall be provided;

(c) Tolls and other charges for transit and ancillary services shall be just, reasonable, equitable and consistent with the principles of international law"

.

I don't know if there have been any amendments that change the above. But since some 40 other countries have agreed to support it also, it would take a lot of diplomacy.

  • Like 1
halfmanhalfbronco Advanced Member

halfmanhalfbronco

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 3:24 PM, FresnoFacts said:

We would have to renegotiate that pesky "Treaty Concerning the Permanent Neutrality and Operation of the Panama Canal" to get lower fees for the US navy or commercial ships. Roughly 40 other countries have also agreed to respect that treaty. It basically says everyone get treated the same even on fees.

The treaty does give US vessels of war a priority passage (jump the canal waiting line) during war or emergencies.

But in terms of fees, the Neutrality Treaty says everyone gets treated the same. I read it that there can be no discrimination and no preferential treatment on fees.

.

In Article II - "The Republic of Panama declares the neutrality of the Canal in order that both in time of peace and in time of war it shall remain secure and open to peaceful transit by the vessels of all nations on terms of entire equality, so that there will be no discrimination against any nation, or its citizens or subjects, concerning the conditions or charges of transit, or for any other reason, and so that the Canal, and therefore the Isthmus of Panama, shall not be the target of reprisals in any armed conflict between other nations of the world."

And in Article III - "For purposes of the security, efficiency and proper maintenance of the Canal the following rules shall apply:

(a) The Canal shall be operated efficiently in accordance with conditions of transit through the Canal, and rules and regulations that shall be just, equitable and reasonable, and limited to those necessary for safe navigation and efficient, sanitary operation of the Canal;

(b) Ancillary services necessary for transit through the Canal shall be provided;

(c) Tolls and other charges for transit and ancillary services shall be just, reasonable, equitable and consistent with the principles of international law"

.

I don't know if there have been any amendments that change the above. But since some 40 other countries have agreed to support it also, it would take a lot of diplomacy.

I think that's the rub.  Top ranking members of the Navy are concerned It's already been violated by Panama and China.

Oh, and it happend under Trump's watch...

I'm pretty certain this is coming from Trump being briefed on the security concerns posed by CCP influence over the Canal, that happened under his nose.  Trump being Trump is throwing a fit.

https://www.rivieramm.com/news-content-hub/news-content-hub/us-and-china-clash-over-neutrality-of-drought-hit-panama-canal-79323

  • Like 1
halfmanhalfbronco Advanced Member

halfmanhalfbronco

Posted
Posted

Also @thelawlorfaithful @The San Diegan, @happycamper or @Old_SD_Dude or any other Age of Exploration nerds couldn't the case (in fun and jest) be made Greenland should belong to the US?  Denmark-Norway cheated and lied on their claim.  They didn't beat the US.  It was confirmed well after they lied and what they "claimed" wasn't even close.

Bigger steal than Hunter winning the Heisman!!! @renoskier

  • Haha 1
DestinFlPackfan Advanced Member

DestinFlPackfan

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 5:28 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Also @thelawlorfaithful @The San Diegan, @happycamper or @Old_SD_Dude or any other Age of Exploration nerds couldn't the case (in fun and jest) be made Greenland should belong to the US?  Denmark-Norway cheated and lied on their claim.  They didn't beat the US.  It was confirmed well after they lied and what they "claimed" wasn't even close.

Bigger steal than Hunter winning the Heisman!!! @renoskier

Links please. 

  • Like 1
halfmanhalfbronco Advanced Member

halfmanhalfbronco

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 4:33 PM, DestinFlPackfan said:

Links please. 

I'm making a lamb roast just spitballing off memory on my phone (thus the tags) waiting for the oven to preheat.  Give me a bit haha.

But IIRC in the race to claim Greenland, the last unclaimed significant piece of land, it was a race between the Denmark-Norway party and the US.  They claimed it first but based on studies of their journals and logs that couldn't have been true.  The expedition was a fraud.

Everything on the first several pages of google is nothing but Trump links

  • Like 1
Akkula Advanced Member

Akkula

Posted
Posted

Here is what has happened with Trump so far since he won the election:

He was rebuffed by the Senate in his effort to have him "rubber stamp" his nutty cabinet picks.  Many of them are currently on life support or withdrawn.

The female president of Mexico told him to go fuck himself on the 25% tariffs and informed him they would be reciprocated.  Trump promptly declared victory and moved on. 

His bluff was called again by Democrats on a shutdown and he actually got a worse deal than he was offered originally and the debt ceiling fight will actually be sooner next year while he is trying to give away the farm to billionaires.  

Panama...who doesn't even have an army BTW...told him to fuck off too.  And he won't do jack shit about it. 

It is funny that he thinks he drives all these hard bargains but he really is poor at negotiating.  There is only so many times playing the "crazy" card actually works.  Nobody finds it credible.   Nobody is going to sell you the farm for $1 even if you issue mob boss like protection threats.

So what Trump does is go around and make these daily silly distractions.  He wants the attention but he also knows that he will deliver almost nothing of real substance.  He can blow up spending deals and immigration bills but he and the conjobs have nothing of substance to put in its place.  So he just goes around and tanks this, that, or the other deal and makes these provocative little charades to distract everyone and the media for a few days.  

This will be his next 4 years.  Going around doing his best to get media attention by saying or doing something provocative.  But he will have little REAL accomplishments and all the provocations are just window dressing to disguise the fact that he is one of the most mediocre/pedestrian presidents ever.   He will have the most time spent by cable news and newspapers dissecting his every move, while all the time he will accomplish almost nothing.  He will be seen as a microcosm of the social media in general.  Lots of hype and activity, but little accomplished.   

My comment/question will be for Trump and the Trumpists during all the drama is where is the immigration bill/deal?  You told us this was SUCH a huge priority but you have no legislation or ideas?  Really?  We MUST SOLVE THE BORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Akkula Advanced Member

Akkula

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 4:03 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

China also got to control two locks out of the deal as mentioned above.  

Bullying probably isn't the best way to gain influence....

China built the national stadium here in Costa Rica.  Taiwan build a major bridge here too before China basically bought out that relationship.  

China had a major project in Nicaragua to build a canal there with them through lake Nicaragua.  That looked to have fizzled but perhaps not.  

China basically goes to countries and say, "The USA is a big bully who constantly meddles in your internal affairs.  We will just buy your friendship and not spend all the time trying to strong arm and judge you." 

Donald Trump is the best thing that has happened to China in a very long time if they want to expand their global influence.  Mexico and the rest of Latin America do not see themselves as vassal states to the USA, just like Ukraine doesn't think it is controlled by Russian interests.    

HR_poke Advanced Member

HR_poke

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 3:16 PM, Old_SD_Dude said:

And we basically created Panama. It was part of Columbia. The US in 1903 cooperated with banking interests in what is now Panama. Panamanian independence was declared, which was instantly recognized by the US, which sent in Marines and warships. The quid pro quo was the right to complete the canal and a lease of the Canal Zone. Ah the good old days…

Should have just annexed it back then as a state. Back when manifest destiny was still cool.

Akkula Advanced Member

Akkula

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2024 at 8:34 AM, HR_poke said:

Should have just annexed it back then as a state. Back when manifest destiny was still cool.

Trump takes his economic policies from the 19th century, why not his foreign policy?  MAGA!

The San Diegan Advanced Member

The San Diegan

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 3:28 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Also @thelawlorfaithful @The San Diegan, @happycamper or @Old_SD_Dude or any other Age of Exploration nerds couldn't the case (in fun and jest) be made Greenland should belong to the US?  Denmark-Norway cheated and lied on their claim.  They didn't beat the US.  It was confirmed well after they lied and what they "claimed" wasn't even close.

Bigger steal than Hunter winning the Heisman!!! @renoskier

I liked the Danish reply more:

IMG-8209.png IMG-8210.png

IMG-8211.png IMG-8212.png

  • Haha 11
FresnoFacts Advanced Member

FresnoFacts

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2024 at 9:47 AM, The San Diegan said:

I liked the Danish reply more:

IMG-8209.png IMG-8210.png

IMG-8211.png IMG-8212.png

 

I like the Danish quote also. Unfortunately they did not say it.

The quote is from a 2019 satire article in The New Yorker by Andy Borowitz written after Trump brought up buying Greenland in his first term.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/denmark-offers-to-buy-us

But even as satire it is still a great reply to Trump's obsession.

  • Like 1
The San Diegan Advanced Member

The San Diegan

Posted
Posted
On 12/26/2024 at 10:14 PM, FresnoFacts said:

 

I like the Danish quote also. Unfortunately they did not say it.

The quote is from a 2019 satire article in The New Yorker by Andy Borowitz written after Trump brought up buying Greenland in his first term.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/denmark-offers-to-buy-us

But even as satire it is still a great reply to Trump's obsession.

What if I find someone who is at least part Danish who would go on record and read that shit word-for-word to make it real?

  • Haha 2

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