The Economist Goes After Veterans

[sean327]

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/11/28/american-veterans-now-receive-absurdly-generous-benefits

This article is full of stupid takes. It doesn't factor in 20 years of endless war and the fact that battlefield trauma care has improved. It's also very hypocritical of them since they were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Most of you know my background, so I'm curious how you see this.

[HR_poke]

Pay wall.

But having friends that lost limbs and suffer from ptsd. And friends that didn't come back...  we don't give our war fighters nearly the benefits they deserve.

[sean327]

On 12/9/2024 at 4:07 PM, HR_poke said:

Pay wall.

But having friends that lost limbs and suffer from ptsd. And friends that didn't come back...  we don't give our war fighters nearly the benefits they deserve.

If you only knew the hoops that have to be jumped through to get the benefits. But that's another story for another day.

[sean327]

Sorry about the paywall. Apparently I bought a subscription 10 years ago and forgot about it.

[HR_poke]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:14 PM, sean327 said:

If you only knew the hoops that have to be jumped through to get the benefits. But that's another story for another day.

I can imagine. Just the hastle to get a flag for my grandfather and father's funeral was such a pain we gave up. My mom is eligible for the veterans widow assisted Living benefit and I'm not looking forward to how big a pain that is going to be.

[sean327]

On 12/9/2024 at 4:29 PM, HR_poke said:

I can imagine. Just the hastle to get a flag for my grandfather and father's funeral was such a pain we gave up. My mom is eligible for the veterans widow assisted Living benefit and I'm not looking forward to how big a pain that is going to be.

Go talk to your local VFW, American Legion, or DAV. All three have very knowledgeable people who will help you through the process. They can also help you get a flag for your grandfather.

[HR_poke]

On 12/9/2024 at 7:19 PM, sean327 said:

Go talk to your local VFW, American Legion, or DAV. All three have very knowledgeable people who will help you through the process. They can also help you get a flag for your grandfather.

We don't have his discharge papers. He's got his other documents thanking him for his service in the army air forces.  I guess I can do the online records request, just unsure that they will have his back from 1945.

[AztecAlien]

On 12/9/2024 at 3:53 PM, sean327 said:

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/11/28/american-veterans-now-receive-absurdly-generous-benefits

This article is full of stupid takes. It doesn't factor in 20 years of endless war and the fact that battlefield trauma care has improved. It's also very hypocritical of them since they were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Most of you know my background, so I'm curious how you see this.

I was able to read it, but it was microscopic, and I agree with you on some of the opinions. We should always take the side of doing more for our veterans. 

 

[CV147]

I think we should take care of our veterans.

I worry about the number seeking a percentage of disability, but that also reinforces my view that we need to stop deploying our military and we should consider reducing its size.

War is great for profiteering and politician dick waving, but it's horrible to the people we send. The least we can do is care for them after they return home changed, or broken.

[RSF]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:45 PM, HR_poke said:

We don't have his discharge papers. He's got his other documents thanking him for his service in the army air forces.  I guess I can do the online records request, just unsure that they will have his back from 1945.

They should. They have most everything digitized, and what they don’t they’ll dig up.   Took me about 3 months to get my father’s.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 12/9/2024 at 3:53 PM, sean327 said:

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/11/28/american-veterans-now-receive-absurdly-generous-benefits

This article is full of stupid takes. It doesn't factor in 20 years of endless war and the fact that battlefield trauma care has improved. It's also very hypocritical of them since they were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Most of you know my background, so I'm curious how you see this.

 

A rebuttal here:

"And now a word from VFW's National Legislative Director Pat Murray - 

Normally, Thanksgiving is synonymous with food, family, friends, and giving thanks. For 
@TheEconomist
, Thanksgiving apparently means taking a turkey-sized dump on disabled veterans. The other day I had the unfortunate opportunity to read an unattributed article on The Economist titled, “American veterans now receive absurdly generous benefits” and it left me with a lot of thoughts. (You can read it for yourself here: https://econ.st/3D0Nk87, just be ready to sign up for a subscription.)

The piece on The Economist has no author and reads like it was poorly run through ChatGPT. And the title of the piece is insultingly stupid. The definition of absurd is "wildly unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate." I’d challenge the anonymous cowards at The Economist to illuminate us on which parts of veterans’ healthcare and benefits are inappropriate, illogical, or wildly unreasonable?

I am a disabled veteran. I had my right leg blown to pieces on September 4, 2006, in Fallujah, Iraq. Since that time, I have had to walk with an above the knee prosthetic and I have not had an easy day physically for as long as I can remember. Hey, The Economist, which portion of my healthcare or benefits are wildly unreasonable?

Service to our country can be an incredibly uplifting and positive experience for many who wore the uniform, but that service can also involve hazards. Some disabled veterans struggle physically or mentally with the effects of their service. Bullet wounds, Traumatic Brain Injuries, Post Traumatic Stress, and other effects of a service can sometimes cause chronic issues for veterans, and providing care and benefits for those issues is certainly not inappropriate or illogical.

While the AI assisted “journalists” at The Economist boldly chose not to put their name on this piece, they did attribute a quote to another non-expert in veteran benefits, Mark Duggan from Stanford University. Mark foolishly stated about VA Disability and Compensation, “Once you qualify you have an incentive not to get better.” An incentive not to get better?!?!? Hey Mark, any clue how I can get my right leg back? I’d gladly give back the money I’ve received so I can get up out of bed without the assistance of a wheelchair or a prosthetic.

The meandering poorly structured article in The Economist highlighted a lot of increased numbers and statistics, many of these figures quoted began back in 2001. It highlighted the increased number of veterans with high disability ratings beginning to increase in 2001. However, nowhere in the article does it state what else began back in 2001. These dopes conveniently left out the Global War on Terror that began in 2001 lasted for TWENTY YEARS! A full 20 years of the same all-volunteer force serving over and over, and over again in the same toxic hellholes fighting the same brutal terrorists. Gee, I wonder why today’s veterans are presenting with more chronic ailments than generations that came before us.

Ivy League elitists like Mark Duggan and the pretentious wankers at the Economist clearly didn’t bother to do much research on veteran disability or bother to speak to one of the millions of disabled veterans like me. We would have told these arrogant snobs that certain injuries and illnesses are with us for life, and no disability rating is worth the difficulties that come with some of the aftereffects of service.

The real cherry on top of this turd sundae was the lazy suggestion (possibly lifted from the fools at the 
@washingtonpost
 Editorial Board) that VA should means test veterans before receiving benefits. As in, if you make enough money after service, you won’t be taken care of for the costs of war. If The Economist had bothered to attribute a name to this drivel, I would ask that idiot, “how would you means test my inability to teach my son to ride a bike?” It’s a pretty routine joy that most parents get the privilege of taking part in. However, my prosthetic leg doesn’t really function in a way that allows normal bike riding. So that is a simple joy I won’t get. How exactly do buffoons like Mark Duggan and the dollar store journalists at The Economist suggest factoring in that loss?

The last paragraph of this loosely compiled puddle of garbage juice included the statement, “Reducing payments to former soldiers will never be popular, but it would be wise. America’s veteran obsession has gone too far.” -- TOO FAR?!?!? Holy hell, this sounds like it was written by a jealous also-ran who every veteran has probably met. The guy or girl who “totally would’ve joined…but I didn’t because I would’ve told-off a Drill Instructor if they got in my face”. Losers...

In the future, if any major publication wants to embarrass themselves by anonymously taking shots at disabled veterans, I’d like to offer my services. I can start by helping you research this subject to learn about the actual effects of service-connected injuries and illness. I can also connect you with other disabled veterans so you can hear first-hand accounts of some of the difficulties veterans face. I could even help google image search pictures of actual veterans, instead of the stock photo of firefighters The Economist used at the top of its trash piece on veterans. Then finally, if you are still intent on disparaging disabled veterans, I can assist you in removing your head from your ass…free of charge."

Patrick Murray

VFW Legislative Director
USMC 2003-2007

The Economist and 9 others
Last edited
11:52 AM · Dec 3, 2024
·
48.3K
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[halfmanhalfbronco]

^^ pretty solid evisceration of the article lol

[FresnoFacts]

Defense nominee Pete Hegseth and VA nominee Doug Collins both have also talked in the past about cutting Veterans benefits.

In 2019, Hegseth said on Fox and Friends: "Groups out there -- vets groups, mostly -- encourage vets to apply for every government benefit they can ever get after they leave the service. Because -- well, why not, right, if government's giving it out. To me, the ethos of service is I served my country because I love my country and I'm going to come home and start the next chapter of my life. And if I've got a chronic condition, mental, physical, otherwise, the government better be there for me. But otherwise, I don't want to be dependent if I don't have to be."

In 2014, Hegseth wrote a WSJ opinion piece talking about how much the DOD spends on healthcare. In his mind it was too much.

Unfortunately I think veterans are another group who might be a target of the rich who want to cut government spending.

[FresnoFacts]

On 12/9/2024 at 4:45 PM, HR_poke said:

We don't have his discharge papers. He's got his other documents thanking him for his service in the army air forces.  I guess I can do the online records request, just unsure that they will have his back from 1945.

Try the request anyway. The records center fire back in the 1970s destroyed a lot. But my wife did a request and was able to receive a little about her family member's WW2 service.

[HR_poke]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:07 PM, FresnoFacts said:

Try the request anyway. The records center fire back in the 1970s destroyed a lot. But my wife did a request and was able to receive a little about her family member's WW2 service.

That's my big worry. My dad thought his got caught up in that same fire. But I got his a couple weeks after his funeral.  Thanks, glad to hear others were able to get some info.

 

@sean327 sorry to derail your thread. Been having a hard time since my dad passed in November and I couldn't even get him his flag he deserved for his service....

[happycamper]

I think multiple things can be true.

First, we took what, 2? 3? million kids and dropped them in Iraq and Afghanistan for a generation in a constant low level guerilla war. It tore them up physically and mentally.

Second, as the rebuttal states, the wars were framed as our patriotic duty to stop terrorism. We tore up a solid fraction of our young generation for what we thought, and what we told ourselves, was the right thing to do.

Third, people in uniform are compensated... pretty well. It's not exactly popular to say that, but the total compensation someone gets in uniform is generally a lot higher than what you can get in private industry. Base pay looks low, but nobody else gets tax-free money for housing and for food and free health care and bumps up for being married and having kids. Nobody else gets such high levels of education assistance that can also transfer to your kids and spouse. And pretty much nowhere gives you a pension after 20 years, and especially doesn't offer you a pension and a retirement savings account option together. There's a reason why a lot of "traditional values" as in stay at home moms and large families still remain in military families... they can afford it. All this money comes from somewhere. It makes sense that a publication called "The Economist" is going to see this as the tallest nail to pound money from, in a cold blooded numbers only fashion. 

Fourth, both of the wars we were in that did the vast majority of the injuries to servicemembers are pretty unpopular. We spent trillions of dollars and a generation to weaken our geopolitical standing. The stink of that is going to be in politics for a long time. 

Fifth... it doesn't really matter that much. We owe it to our vets, especially our disabled vets, to provide care and coverage. Not only is it the right thing to do but to be honest, having a big payment albatross around our neck for a few generations after our military adventures might be enough of a warning that we don't do it for a while (or even just plan them better. I'm pretty convinced there was no way Afghanistan didn't end the way it did or even worse. Iraq... Iraq could have gone a lot better). 

[thehowlin]

I don’t have to read it to know that it’s a United States tradition to wrap ourselves in the flag with one hand and use the other one to take away benefits from our Veterans. It’s a tradition as old as the American Revolution, literally.

[Sactowndog]

On 12/9/2024 at 2:53 PM, sean327 said:

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/11/28/american-veterans-now-receive-absurdly-generous-benefits

This article is full of stupid takes. It doesn't factor in 20 years of endless war and the fact that battlefield trauma care has improved. It's also very hypocritical of them since they were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Most of you know my background, so I'm curious how you see this.

My take is this article is a planted take from the DOGE boys.   They have the VA in their sites.  These guys don’t care about the constitution so why should they care about promises to veterans.  

[FresnoFacts]

On 12/10/2024 at 3:50 AM, HR_poke said:

That's my big worry. My dad thought his got caught up in that same fire. But I got his a couple weeks after his funeral.  Thanks, glad to hear others were able to get some info.

 

@sean327 sorry to derail your thread. Been having a hard time since my dad passed in November and I couldn't even get him his flag he deserved for his service....

Just a real quick comment. Periodically go back and do general internet searches, never know what gets digitized and added by someone else that was not there before.

I did that last year and found a one paragraph newspaper article about one of my relatives from his hometown newspaper had been added by a volunteer researcher on one of the cemetery search sites. I had been on that site multiple times before so this was a new addition. He was First Special Service Force (Devil's Brigade) in WW2 and the paragraph just mentioned he was recovering in a hospital from a battle. Nice extra little family history story to find.

[CoachKenFTW]

I feel like every politician who voted for the regime change war in Irak should be breaking rocks in Leavenworth. Ditto for all the high level personnel at the Pentagon. 

I also wonder how much we should pity soldiers such as the one in the article above. Any high school age and above at the time could it was total bs war. Were we supposed to the recruiting center and rip the pens out of their hands to prevent them from fighting in an unwinnable war?