Per GOP: Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid up for cuts

[Rebel_Alliance]

On 12/5/2024 at 9:34 PM, Billings said:

You would have to force people to save or they won’t.  Also for SSDI and disability you would have a huge hole to fill with taxes.

Or can't.  Half this country lives paycheck to paycheck and can't afford a 5K emergency.  That's what happens when all the income gains since 1980 flow to ten percent of the population.

[HR_poke]

On 12/6/2024 at 12:45 PM, mugtang said:

I understand something has to give.  I also know we need across the board cuts but taxes also have to be increased.  We also need to properly fund the IRS (which I know isn't popular) because there's a tax gap of nearly $540 billion.  If you properly fund the IRS and don't make any additional changes that would cut the deficit by 30%.  And they aren't going after middle class workers, despite the talking points.  If you're not claiming the earned income tax credit or another credit it's highly unlikely you'll ever hear from the IRS.  

But we also need to raise revenue.  We are right now collecting 16.2% of GDP.  That number needs to be increased to somewhere between 18-19% of GDP.  And you need to cut spending to a similar level.  Again, it won't be popular but unless we address this now there's going to be severe austerity in our future.  The world will only continue purchasing our debt for so long.  After that the party is over.  

Or you could simplify the tax code across the board so it didn't require 80,000 agents to audit and enforce.

[CoachKenFTW]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:34 AM, HR_poke said:

I mentioned cutting SS or means testing to my boomer parents a few years ago.  They lost their shit.  They "Earned" that money and it's theirs!  

Social Security is a tax. Tax revenue belongs to the govt, not taxpayers. In the case of SS, democrats have using that tax money to influence elections for nearly a century. So, to quote a famous Democrat, let's "Get money out of elections". Let's cut Social Security.

[renoskier]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:51 AM, Rebel_Alliance said:

Or can't.  Half this country lives paycheck to paycheck and can't afford a 5K emergency.  That's what happens when all the income gains since 1980 flow to ten percent of the population.

they're already paying 7-14% of their income into SS, couldn't they just put that same amount into savings?

the answer is: yes, of course they could

what percentage would?

therein lies the problem

[NorCalCoug]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:51 AM, Rebel_Alliance said:

Or can't.  Half this country lives paycheck to paycheck and can't afford a 5K emergency.  That's what happens when all the income gains since 1980 flow to ten percent of the population.

Yet 90% of this country has huge flatscreen TV’s, cable/streaming packages, iPhones with costly plans, etc. etc. etc.  It’s more a function of priority than capability for most.

[happycamper]

On 12/5/2024 at 10:29 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

There's no need to be an emotional simpleton. It can be phased out.

ok, so tell all the millennials that not only are they paying way more in to SS than the people they're paying for, but they'll also never get the benefit in the first place

On 12/5/2024 at 9:43 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

Social Security should be first on the chopping block. The return on investment is disastrous. Take that 13% away from the govt. and put it back into the economy, retirement plans, or both. Even something simple as high yield savings accounts, bonds or whole life insurance would be better than SSI. But we're a nation of financial illiterates, so it's never going to happen.

"back in the economy"? what do you think old people do with their social security, not spend it?

[CoachKenFTW]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:37 AM, happycamper said:

ok, so tell all the millennials that not only are they paying way more in to SS than the people they're paying for, but they'll also never get the benefit in the first place

"back in the economy"? what do you think old people do with their social security, not spend it?

 

[mugtang]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:06 AM, HR_poke said:

Or you could simplify the tax code across the board so it didn't require 80,000 agents to audit and enforce.

I’ll never advocate for a simplified tax code. That would hurt me as that’s the field I work in. 

[HR_poke]

On 12/6/2024 at 2:08 PM, mugtang said:

I’ll never advocate for a simplified tax code. That would hurt me as that’s the field I work in. 

move to corporate accounting like my wife.  Taxes are for chumps

[happycamper]

On 12/6/2024 at 2:08 PM, mugtang said:

I’ll never advocate for a simplified tax code. That would hurt me as that’s the field I work in. 

also every tax code simplification i've ever seen has involved placing a higher burden on the middle class, again, in addition to my entire life of republicans wanting yet another round of tax cuts, come on bro, just one more round of tax cuts, that's all we need, this next round of tax cuts will fix everything forever. 

[BYUcougfan]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:45 AM, mugtang said:

I understand something has to give.  I also know we need across the board cuts but taxes also have to be increased.  We also need to properly fund the IRS (which I know isn't popular) because there's a tax gap of nearly $540 billion.  If you properly fund the IRS and don't make any additional changes that would cut the deficit by 30%.  And they aren't going after middle class workers, despite the talking points.  If you're not claiming the earned income tax credit or another credit it's highly unlikely you'll ever hear from the IRS.  

But we also need to raise revenue.  We are right now collecting 16.2% of GDP.  That number needs to be increased to somewhere between 18-19% of GDP.  And you need to cut spending to a similar level.  Again, it won't be popular but unless we address this now there's going to be severe austerity in our future.  The world will only continue purchasing our debt for so long.  After that the party is over.  

I mostly agree, but what I will not agree to again is we raise taxes first and then address spending.  We never end up addressing the spending.

[mugtang]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:21 AM, happycamper said:

also every tax code simplification i've ever seen has involved placing a higher burden on the middle class, again, in addition to my entire life of republicans wanting yet another round of tax cuts, come on bro, just one more round of tax cuts, that's all we need, this next round of tax cuts will fix everything forever. 

My taxes went up with TCJA....fucking Trump.

[BYUcougfan]

On 12/6/2024 at 12:21 PM, happycamper said:

also every tax code simplification i've ever seen has involved placing a higher burden on the middle class, again, in addition to my entire life of republicans wanting yet another round of tax cuts, come on bro, just one more round of tax cuts, that's all we need, this next round of tax cuts will fix everything forever. 

Taxes will have to go up, but we are not going to increase taxes by $1.8T in constant dollars without absolutely ruining the economy.  Military, SS, and Medicare spending have got to be addressed since that is where the money it.

[BYUcougfan]

On 12/6/2024 at 12:56 PM, mugtang said:

My taxes went up with TCJA....fucking Trump.

So did mine.

[HR_poke]

On 12/6/2024 at 2:21 PM, happycamper said:

also every tax code simplification i've ever seen has involved placing a higher burden on the middle class, again, in addition to my entire life of republicans wanting yet another round of tax cuts, come on bro, just one more round of tax cuts, that's all we need, this next round of tax cuts will fix everything forever. 

That's because the middle class is paying too little. With all the deductions and shit middle class is paying 10% to 15% of their income in taxes. It probably needs to be 15 to 20% to cover the shortfalls in all the social safety nets, including Medicare only paying 60% of costs.

[BYUcougfan]

On 12/6/2024 at 12:08 PM, mugtang said:

I’ll never advocate for a simplified tax code. That would hurt me as that’s the field I work in. 

Well, at least you are honest about it.  Personally, I don't feel great spending $1,000 per year on a tax accountant.

[BYUcougfan]

On 12/6/2024 at 1:00 PM, HR_poke said:

That's because the middle class is paying too little. With all the deductions and shit middle class is paying 10% to 15% of their income in taxes. It probably needs to be 15 to 20% to cover the shortfalls in all the social safety nets, including Medicare only paying 60% of costs.

There are lots of people on this board that are in favor of Western European style social benefits, but without taxing like those countries tax.

[RSF]

On 12/6/2024 at 12:37 PM, happycamper said:

ok, so tell all the millennials that not only are they paying way more in to SS than the people they're paying for, but they'll also never get the benefit in the first place

"back in the economy"? what do you think old people do with their social security, not spend it?

My elderly mother doesnt spend her Social Security....

 

 

I do, and it all goes to the assisted living facility.  Damn boomers....

[happycamper]

On 12/6/2024 at 2:55 PM, BYUcougfan said:

I mostly agree, but what I will not agree to again is we raise taxes first and then address spending.  We never end up addressing the spending.

why lol. we've cut taxes forever while increasing spending. seems like you want your cake and eat it too

[HR_poke]

On 12/6/2024 at 3:04 PM, BYUcougfan said:

There are lots of people on this board that are in favor of Western European style social benefits, but without taxing like those countries tax.

Then you have to print money and devalue your currency in the process.  Worked for the Weimar Republic. Stuck it to those French pricks and their reparations.