Turkey Talk.

[StealthLobo]

On 11/29/2024 at 12:22 AM, renoskier said:

now it's Thursday here...

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks!

A lot of my coworkers later on asked why we (Americans) celebrate Thanksgiving. I did know whether to tell them the children's story or the real history of wiping out the Wanpanoag...

[Chile_Ute]

On 11/28/2024 at 10:26 AM, StealthLobo said:

Thanks!

A lot of my coworkers later on asked why we (Americans) celebrate Thanksgiving. I did know whether to tell them the children's story or the real history of wiping out the Wanpanoag...

Always perspective.  Colonization was always inevitable.  With that said, i simply to the basic.  There is so much I’m thankful for that I don’t spend time reflecting or telling people close to me.  It is a reminder for me to live thankfully daily….even though I fail most of the time.

[StealthLobo]

On 11/29/2024 at 7:44 AM, Chile_Ute said:

Always perspective.  Colonization was always inevitable.  With that said, i simply to the basic.  There is so much I’m thankful for that I don’t spend time reflecting or telling people close to me.  It is a reminder for me to live thankfully daily….even though I fail most of the time.

True.

They talk very highly of Captain Cook here. Lots of monuments and streets, mountains named after him. But in Hawaii, he's considered the devil.

[HR_poke]

On 11/28/2024 at 4:09 PM, StealthLobo said:

True.

They talk very highly of Captain Cook here. Lots of monuments and streets, mountains named after him. But in Hawaii, he's considered the devil.

He was the devil, but damn that dude was a prolific explorer.

[StealthLobo]

On 11/29/2024 at 11:10 AM, HR_poke said:

He was the devil, but damn that dude was a prolific explorer.

Ya, they kinda overlook the devil part here and put a lot more weight in the explorer part of him. The Maori seem more accepting of him too, but that's probably just compared to the way I heard the Hawaiians speak of him.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/28/2024 at 3:10 PM, HR_poke said:

He was the devil, but damn that dude was a prolific explorer.

Cook was pretty woke for his day if you read his writings.  He expressed great admiration, even to the point of hardly concealed envy, for the cultures and the people he interacted with.

He was a cog in the machine that was British colonialism.  He was no Columbus, who was actually evil. 

The hate for him is mostly by people ignorant of the history of the time.

[HR_poke]

On 11/28/2024 at 7:37 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Cook was pretty woke for his day if you read his writings.  He expressed great admiration, even to the point of hardly concealed envy, for the cultures and the people he interacted with.

He was a cog in the machine that was British colonialism.  He was no Columbus, who was actually evil. 

The hate for him is mostly by people ignorant of the history of the time.

Stealing wood from burial grounds knowingly along with the kidnapping and attempted murder of the hawaiin king because they were becoming insolent is pretty evil.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:45 PM, HR_poke said:

Stealing wood from burial grounds knowingly along with the kidnapping and attempted murder of the hawaiin king because they were becoming insolent is pretty evil.

Touche.  He fucked up in Hawaii.  The attempted kidnapping was to keep the natives from stealing and sabotaging their ship while they worked on repairs.  He died because he grossly misunderstood the culture.

He is not the devil...at least in the context of historical relativism.  So many other captains in the British project were outright evil.  

 

[HR_poke]

On 11/28/2024 at 7:57 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Touche.  He fucked up in Hawaii.  The attempted kidnapping was to keep the natives from stealing and sabotaging their ship while they worked on repairs.  He died because he grossly misunderstood the culture.

He is not the devil...at least in the context of historical relativism.  So many other captains in the British project were outright evil.  

 

He's no Columbus, or conquistador for sure. But definitely interesting to see him venerated when the Hawaiians effin hate him to this day.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/28/2024 at 8:45 PM, HR_poke said:

He's no Columbus, or conquistador for sure. But definitely interesting to see him venerated when the Hawaiians effin hate him to this day.

The Hawaii hate seems to be more mythologized than anything.  He overstepped their cultural boundaries he did not understand.  Cook saw, with reason when they came back to make repairs to their ship the warrior culture was now antagonistic.  He was trying to repair his ship so he could leave and the natives kept ripping out the iron nails, sneaking in and stealing goods, and eventually stole one of their last two long boats.  

Cook thought kidnapping the king was a way to stop the constant sabotage.  He knew if they could not leave, they would all die there.  He saw it as a peaceable solution.  He was wrong and died for his bad decision.

He wasn't a monster.