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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 11:11 AM, happycamper said:

My man you are either unwilling or unable to summarize a news report you think others should watch.

Why would I respect someone like that? Why would I bother to waste time on stuff they provide?

tfw you are so right wing that you become anti-western

Right, discussing the actual situation somehow means we're "anti West" and "Pro Russian". This while you refuse to watch sources breaking down the conflict with a bullshit excuse and now with another added deflection.

Imagine being so ignorant that you can't handle information in video or audio format in the digital/modern world. It's a lame excuse, a cop out all to avoid something that hurts your feelings.

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 11:21 AM, UtGrizfan said:

Right, discussing the actual situation somehow means we're "anti West" and "Pro Russian". This while you refuse to watch sources breaking down the conflict with a bullshit excuse and now with another added deflection.

Imagine being so ignorant that you can't handle information in video or audio format in the digital/modern world. It's a lame excuse, a cop out all to avoid something that hurts your feelings.

Understanding or criticizing the West for being equally responsible for this war isn't supporting Russia or being a Putin apologist. That's all they have when you disagree with their stance. The U.S. has made costly mistakes in Eastern Europe, but Russia deserves some criticism as well. 

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Posted

Ukraine is going to have to draft a ton of troops if they want to have a chance at stopping the Russian offensive. Even then they can't keep up with Russian conscription. Inevitably the west is going to have to force Russia to the negotiating table or get involved with troops.

Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 6:26 AM, happycamper said:

What are you talking about? How could Russia POSSIBLY be burned, for one? And for two, there's been no ceasefires or even peace talks.

Do you not understand that Russia is invading Ukraine? 

Halfman, it's just that you seem to be forgetting the basic fact that this is a war of conquest with an objective aggressor. If Russia wanted peace, it could have it tomorrow. If Ukraine wanted peace, they would need to start forgetting their mother tongue. 

You may be right.

It seems all sides, including Russia expect this to come to a diplomatic end within the next 18 months.  All indications were that Russia was willing to end the war earlier at several points in exchange for recognition of their claims to the Donbas and Crimea.

Not using our soft power and position to get that done seems like a huge mistake.

Ukraine is in a weaker position now in comparison to Russia than at any point prior.  It is a matter of if not when they have to retreat from Kursk, meanwhile Russia captured more territory in a 4 week period than any prior 4 week period past the first few days of the war, with the biggest gains coming last week. 

During this time they demonstrated a new weapons platform that once full production starts rolling could rival a tactical nuke without actually using a nuke.  And our missle defenses can't stop it.  It can change variable speeds while in route and reach up to Mach 11, making it impossible with our current platforms to intercept.

The only thing "this best deal ever" seems to have accomplished since the stalemate war of attrition started is bringing Russia, China, Iran and NK closer together, given our adversaries including Russia a shit ton of data points on our own weapons and modern war in general and a whole lot of dead soldiers and civilians.

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 1:21 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Right, discussing the actual situation somehow means we're "anti West" and "Pro Russian". This while you refuse to watch sources breaking down the conflict with a bullshit excuse and now with another added deflection.

AA flat out called blaming Russia for invading Ukraine - something Russia did do - "western propaganda". 

On 11/27/2024 at 1:21 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Imagine being so ignorant that you can't handle information in video or audio format in the digital/modern world. It's a lame excuse, a cop out all to avoid something that hurts your feelings.

griz. Once again. I am unwilling to waste my time. Either provide a summary, an equivalent written article, or realize other people's time is a lot more valuable to them than you think. 

On 11/27/2024 at 1:32 PM, AztecAlien said:

Understanding that the West is every bit responsible for this war isn't supporting Russia or being a Putin apologist. That's all they have when you disagree with their stance. The U.S. has made costly mistakes in Eastern Europe, but Russia deserves some criticism as well. 

It is 100% being a Putin apologist lmao. Russia made the decision to spend hundreds of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives to invade Ukraine. They've engaged in war crimes and genocide while in Ukraine. There is absolutely nothing the West could do to end the war tomorrow. By contrast, if Russia simply... stopped invading Ukraine, the war would be over, full stop. 

You have never been one of the deepest thinkers on the boards we've talked. But dude, being so oblivious that you aren't willing to blame Russia for Russia doing invasions is incredible. +

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 1:35 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

You may be right.

It seems all sides, including Russia expect this to come to a diplomatic end within the next 18 months.  All indications were that Russia was willing to end the war earlier at several points in exchange for recognition of their claims to the Donbas and Crimea. 

 

halfman, I have never seen a single indication of this. Russia has consistently stated that their goal is the destruction of Ukrainian statehood. the only negotiations that they've put forward have them occupying land hundreds of miles from where they have managed to advance - handing them half of Ukraine for conquering 20%. 

There has never in the last almost 3 years been a time where Russia was negotiating in good faith. 

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 11:38 AM, happycamper said:

AA flat out called blaming Russia for invading Ukraine - something Russia did do - "western propaganda". 

griz. Once again. I am unwilling to waste my time. Either provide a summary, an equivalent written article, or realize other people's time is a lot more valuable to them than you think. 

It is 100% being a Putin apologist lmao. Russia made the decision to spend hundreds of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives to invade Ukraine. They've engaged in war crimes and genocide while in Ukraine. There is absolutely nothing the West could do to end the war tomorrow. By contrast, if Russia simply... stopped invading Ukraine, the war would be over, full stop. 

You have never been one of the deepest thinkers on the boards we've talked. But dude, being so oblivious that you aren't willing to blame Russia for Russia doing invasions is incredible. +

Another happy twist. I stated that people are eating Western Propoganda. And they are. I also stated the West needs to take some blame for this war as well. And they should. I also stated Russia should also be criticized. And they should. And it looks like you have plenty of time arguing your opinion, but just ignore others. It's what you do. 

I know you like to read and not watch videos. 

https://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-summer-2022-issue-no.21/the-causes-and-consequences-of-the-ukraine-war

"Given that the United States and its NATO allies played a crucial role in the events that led to the Ukraine war—and are now playing a central role in the conduct of that war—it is appropriate to evaluate the West’s responsibility for this calamity."

https://www.cato.org/commentary/us-nato-helped-trigger-ukraine-war-its-not-siding-putin-admit-it

 

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 10:32 AM, AztecAlien said:

Understanding or criticizing the West for being equally responsible for this war isn't supporting Russia or being a Putin apologist. That's all they have when you disagree with their stance. The U.S. has made costly mistakes in Eastern Europe, but Russia deserves some criticism as well. 

Does Putins dick taste like borscht? @UtGrizfan may know too it seems. 

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 1:50 PM, AztecAlien said:

Another happy twist. I stated that people are eating Western Propoganda. And they are. I also stated the West needs to take some blame for this war as well. And they should.

what blame

seriously dude, what blame. what blame should the west take for russia invading ukraine?

do you blame the liberal democracies for the holocaust?

do you blame the west for the japanese invasion of manchuria? 

do you blame the west for the invasion of kuwait? 

do

On 11/27/2024 at 1:50 PM, AztecAlien said:

I also stated Russia should also be criticized. And they should.

the fact that you feel the need to say that russia "should also" be criticized for, uh, the invasion that russia is conducting is insane.

when you hear about a rape trial do you say "well we should all blame the guy across the bar who didn't immediately take the victim home when she got there"?

 

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 12:17 PM, happycamper said:

what blame

seriously dude, what blame. what blame should the west take for russia invading ukraine?

do you blame the liberal democracies for the holocaust?

do you blame the west for the japanese invasion of manchuria? 

do you blame the west for the invasion of kuwait? 

do

the fact that you feel the need to say that russia "should also" be criticized for, uh, the invasion that russia is conducting is insane.

when you hear about a rape trial do you say "well we should all blame the guy across the bar who didn't immediately take the victim home when she got there"?

 

I thought you like to read? It's obvious you didn't. 

And going with a rape trial now. Typical for you, though. 

 

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Posted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

For our "apologists" on here; in short, should Ukraine be invaded by Russia, the West (with the US at the front) would defend Ukraine in turn for Ukraine giving up their nuclear arms. Russia was also a signatory, with Crimea and the Eastern regions lawfully recognized to be Ukrainian territory.

And if there's any doubt to what Russia plans to do, this is from Putin himself;

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/07/01/there-is-no-ukraine-fact-checking-the-kremlins-version-of-ukrainian-history/

Putin declared, "Ukraine doesn't exist as a country", based off a medieval map. Even though the language, culture, and even capital of Ukraine (Kyiv) predates the Russian Empire. And lets not forget that Putin aimed to take over Kyiv itself, early on, and annex most, if not all, of Ukraine.

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 1:01 PM, son of a gun said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

For our "apologists" on here; in short, should Ukraine be invaded by Russia, the West (with the US at the front) would defend Ukraine in turn for Ukraine giving up their nuclear arms. Russia was also a signatory, with Crimea and the Eastern regions lawfully recognized to be Ukrainian territory.

And if there's any doubt to what Russia plans to do, this is from Putin himself;

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/07/01/there-is-no-ukraine-fact-checking-the-kremlins-version-of-ukrainian-history/

Putin declared, "Ukraine doesn't exist as a country", based off a medieval map. Even though the language, culture, and even capital of Ukraine (Kyiv) predates the Russian Empire. And lets not forget that Putin aimed to take over Kyiv itself, early on, and annex most, if not all, of Ukraine.

 

"First, the United States is principally responsible for causing the Ukraine crisis. This is not to deny that Putin started the war and that he is responsible for Russia’s conduct on the battlefield. Nor is it to deny that America’s allies bear some responsibility, but they largely follow Washington’s lead on Ukraine. My key point, however, is that the United States has pushed forward policies toward Ukraine that Putin and his colleagues see as an existential threat to their country—a point they have made repeatedly for many years. Specifically, I am talking about America’s obsession with bringing Ukraine into NATO and making it a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. The Biden administration was unwilling to eliminate that threat through diplomacy and indeed recommitted itself to bringing Ukraine into NATO in 2021. Putin responded by invading Ukraine on February 24th, 2022."

"Second, the Biden administration has reacted to the outbreak of the war by doubling down against Russia. Washington and its Western allies are committed to decisively defeating Russia in Ukraine and employing comprehensive sanctions to greatly weaken Russian power. The United States is not seriously interested in finding a diplomatic solution to the war, which means the war is likely to drag on for months, if not years. In the process, Ukraine, which has already suffered grievously, is going to experience even greater harm. In essence, the United States and its allies are helping lead Ukraine down the primrose path."

https://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-summer-2022-issue-no.21/the-causes-and-consequences-of-the-ukraine-war

 

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Posted

Just for happycamper, here is a map of Russia, and its neighbors. 

%2B4H2g%2BOGUBjPPn9%2Bdi8FJp9o=&risl=&pi

Given your struggles with non-textual input, allow me to point out to you that the neighbors of Russia who aren't threatening to install new American military bases on Russia's door steps are NOT being invaded right now. Can you put two plus two together now?

Hint: the answer isn't 22.

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 12:08 PM, AztecAlien said:

 

"First, the United States is principally responsible for causing the Ukraine crisis. This is not to deny that Putin started the war and that he is responsible for Russia’s conduct on the battlefield. Nor is it to deny that America’s allies bear some responsibility, but they largely follow Washington’s lead on Ukraine. My key point, however, is that the United States has pushed forward policies toward Ukraine that Putin and his colleagues see as an existential threat to their country—a point they have made repeatedly for many years. Specifically, I am talking about America’s obsession with bringing Ukraine into NATO and making it a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. The Biden administration was unwilling to eliminate that threat through diplomacy and indeed recommitted itself to bringing Ukraine into NATO in 2021. Putin responded by invading Ukraine on February 24th, 2022."

"Second, the Biden administration has reacted to the outbreak of the war by doubling down against Russia. Washington and its Western allies are committed to decisively defeating Russia in Ukraine and employing comprehensive sanctions to greatly weaken Russian power. The United States is not seriously interested in finding a diplomatic solution to the war, which means the war is likely to drag on for months, if not years. In the process, Ukraine, which has already suffered grievously, is going to experience even greater harm. In essence, the United States and its allies are helping lead Ukraine down the primrose path."

https://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-summer-2022-issue-no.21/the-causes-and-consequences-of-the-ukraine-war

 

You realize that’s published by a right wing, pro Russian, Serbia based think tank right?

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 1:17 PM, stanfordchef said:

You realize that’s published by a right wing, pro Russian, Serbia based think tank right?

You just flat out made something up, liar. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

"Born December 14, 1947)[3] is an American political scientist and international relations scholar. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago.

Education

United States Military Academy (BS)

University of Southern California (MA)

Cornell University (PhD)

"In 2019, Mearsheimer said that his preferred candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries was Bernie Sanders and that economic inequality was the greatest problem faced by the United States.[90] He has said that he has very liberal views on gay rights and gay marriage, and expressed support of gender equality.[91]"

Oops.

I also posted different links with three takes that are similar in their argument. 

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 1:20 PM, AztecAlien said:

You just flat out made something up, liar. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

"Born December 14, 1947)[3] is an American political scientist and international relations scholar. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago.

Education

United States Military Academy (BS)

University of Southern California (MA)

Cornell University (PhD)

"In 2019, Mearsheimer said that his preferred candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries was Bernie Sanders and that economic inequality was the greatest problem faced by the United States.[90] He has said that he has very liberal views on gay rights and gay marriage, and expressed support of gender equality.[91]"

Oops.

I also posted three different links with three takes that are similar in their argument. 

Remember any source that proves them wrong or brings to light a counter point is "rIgHt WiNg AnD uNtRuStWoRtHy" while all their sources are 100% the gospel truth. Why it's impossible to have any form of intelligent conversation or debate with them.

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 2:26 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Remember any source that proves them wrong or brings to light a counter point is "rIgHt WiNg AnD uNtRuStWoRtHy" while all their sources are 100% the gospel truth. Why it's impossible to have any form of intelligent conversation or debate with them.

Or they go to just flat out lying. 

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Posted
On 11/27/2024 at 12:20 PM, AztecAlien said:

You just flat out made something up, liar. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

"Born December 14, 1947)[3] is an American political scientist and international relations scholar. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago.

Education

United States Military Academy (BS)

University of Southern California (MA)

Cornell University (PhD)

"In 2019, Mearsheimer said that his preferred candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries was Bernie Sanders and that economic inequality was the greatest problem faced by the United States.[90] He has said that he has very liberal views on gay rights and gay marriage, and expressed support of gender equality.[91]"

Oops.

I also posted three different links with three takes that are similar in their argument. 

It was founded by a right wing Serbian politician and is based in Belgrade 

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