Biden's Gives Ukraine Green Light

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/26/2024 at 5:36 AM, happycamper said:

 

No. This is the major issue. Ukraine has never been able to negotiate a peace. Russia does not want a peace. The only way to get a peace is to force it. The idea that Ukraine could have negotiated for a peace earlier is to misunderstand the nature of this conflict. 

Nah, all indications were after several embarrassments by Russia a peace could have been had.  We are STILL expecting a diplomatic end, only now with FAR less favorable terms and from a position of weakness.

It's ok to say not pressuring Ukraine to cede the territory and acknowledge it as part of Russia looks like a major fuck up.  

Russia gaining territory at a faster rate than any part of the war outside the initial surge.

Misunderstanding the nature of the war was everyone here buying the Western Propoganda that Ukraune was united in their desire to fight to regain all lost territory, that Ukraine was actually ever "winning", and that it was a "great deal"

[AztecAlien]

On 11/26/2024 at 1:32 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Nah, all indications were after several embarrassments by Russia a peace could have been had.  We are STILL expecting a diplomatic end, only now with FAR less favorable terms and from a position of weakness.

It's ok to say not pressuring Ukraine to cede the territory and acknowledge it as part of Russia looks like a major fuck up.  

Russia gaining territory at a faster rate than any part of the war outside the initial surge.

Misunderstanding the nature of the war was everyone here buying the Western Propoganda that Ukraune was united in their desire to fight to regain all lost territory, that Ukraine was actually ever "winning", and that it was a "great deal"

Some of my takes on the MWCBOARD. I was accused of supporting Russia and a Putin apologist. I am neither. But most Americans have no idea. Ukraine was and is still corrupt. 

 

[CoachKenFTW]

On 11/25/2024 at 4:10 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I understand wanting this war to end as quickly as possible because Ukraine simply cannot win this war. I agree with this sentiment because Ukraine continuing to fight just means more people die. At some point Zelenskyy is going to have to accept that Ukraine is going to lose territory. It’s not right, but it’s reality.
 

What I don’t understand is people directing their anger mostly at Ukraine. That’s fuckin weird. Ukraine can’t just unilaterally stop the war unless they completely and unconditionally surrender. I want Zelenskyy to face reality and start negotiating knowing Ukraine will cede territory. But bullying Ukraine into an unconditional surrender is a bridge too far for me.

Ukraine could have avoided war altogether by simply not provoking it. The Euros are equally to blame.

[Los_Aztecas]

On 11/26/2024 at 1:24 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

Ukraine could have avoided war altogether by simply not provoking it. The Euros are equally to blame.

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/26/2024 at 5:36 AM, happycamper said:

Ukraine doesn't have "divisions" in Kursk. Based on what I've found, they have about a single division in Kursk (from what I can tell it is more organized as 4-6 independent brigades). 

They're tying up 3-5 times their number. I don't know what else you want them to do. It was a clear spoiling attack; I don't know how much of a difference tehy would make in the south. 

IF you think that would have kept Russia from invading in 2022, I think you are drinking the kool-aid. 

No. This is the major issue. Ukraine has never been able to negotiate a peace. Russia does not want a peace. The only way to get a peace is to force it. The idea that Ukraine could have negotiated for a peace earlier is to misunderstand the nature of this conflict. 

Russia has been burned repeatedly by "ceasefires" and peace talks from NATO and Ukriane already. Claiming they want peace but then use that time to send advisors, rearm and re-Equip the Ukrainian army, etc. Ukriane is no longer in a position of strength, compared to where they were last year. They overplayed their hand and now it's biting them in the ass, it's talked about in depth really well in the YouTube video I linked a few posts back.

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/26/2024 at 2:24 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

Ukraine could have avoided war altogether by simply not provoking it. The Euros are equally to blame.

It was less Ukraine and more NATO who helped cause this war. Since the Cold War ended NATO has violated multiple treaties by continuing to advance Eastward.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/26/2024 at 7:02 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Russia has been burned repeatedly by "ceasefires" and peace talks from NATO and Ukriane already. Claiming they want peace but then use that time to send advisors, rearm and re-Equip the Ukrainian army, etc. Ukriane is no longer in a position of strength, compared to where they were last year. They overplayed their hand and now it's biting them in the ass, it's talked about in depth really well in the YouTube video I linked a few posts back.

Folks here don't want to hear it.  They don't want to listen about how they ate up propaganda left and right and spouted it here as fact...

 

[happycamper]

On 11/26/2024 at 3:32 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Nah, all indications were after several embarrassments by Russia a peace could have been had. 

From where? This flies counter to everything I've read, to include comments by Putin and the Duma. 

 

[happycamper]

On 11/26/2024 at 9:02 PM, UtGrizfan said:

Russia has been burned repeatedly by "ceasefires" and peace talks from NATO and Ukriane already. Claiming they want peace but then use that time to send advisors, rearm and re-Equip the Ukrainian army, etc. Ukriane is no longer in a position of strength, compared to where they were last year. They overplayed their hand and now it's biting them in the ass, it's talked about in depth really well in the YouTube video I linked a few posts back.

What are you talking about? How could Russia POSSIBLY be burned, for one? And for two, there's been no ceasefires or even peace talks.

Do you not understand that Russia is invading Ukraine? 

On 11/26/2024 at 10:49 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Folks here don't want to hear it.  They don't want to listen about how they ate up propaganda left and right and spouted it here as fact...

 

Halfman, it's just that you seem to be forgetting the basic fact that this is a war of conquest with an objective aggressor. If Russia wanted peace, it could have it tomorrow. If Ukraine wanted peace, they would need to start forgetting their mother tongue. 

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/27/2024 at 6:26 AM, happycamper said:

What are you talking about? How could Russia POSSIBLY be burned, for one? And for two, there's been no ceasefires or even peace talks. 

Watch the video I linked

[happycamper]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:04 AM, UtGrizfan said:

Watch the video I linked

no. this isn't tiktok.

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/27/2024 at 8:08 AM, happycamper said:

no. this isn't tiktok.

It's a YouTube video breaking down the fighting and what's been happening in recent weeks and goes into great detail using multiple sources from a guy in Ukraine.

Thanks for confirming you don't care about the truth or anything that goes against your ignorant opinion. Since before and after annexing Crimea NATO has repeatedly back stabbed Russia during Ceasfires and other meetings.

[happycamper]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:30 AM, UtGrizfan said:

It's a YouTube video breaking down the fighting and what's been happening in recent weeks and goes into great detail using multiple sources from a guy in Ukraine.

Thanks for confirming you don't care about the truth or anything that goes against your ignorant opinion. Since before and after annexing Crimea NATO has repeatedly back stabbed Russia during Ceasfires and other meetings.

I don't care. I don't enjoy watching news videos. If I did, I'd be on tiktok. For that matter, I'm not retired. I have shit to do. It takes ~ 4 minutes of reading to get as much information as you get in an hour of video. 

If you want to link written articles, there's a lot higher chance of me reading them. but i have literally never gone and watched a video as evidence since joining mwcboard in 2005. evidence against me, evidence for me, whatever. that is not what i get on a message board to do. 

Also, if you are incapable of writing a written summary of a news report you think was important or informative... that's pretty good evidence that you didn't understand it. lol

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/27/2024 at 9:37 AM, happycamper said:

I don't care. I don't enjoy watching news videos. If I did, I'd be on tiktok. For that matter, I'm not retired. I have shit to do. It takes ~ 4 minutes of reading to get as much information as you get in an hour of video. 

If you want to link written articles, there's a lot higher chance of me reading them. but i have literally never gone and watched a video as evidence since joining mwcboard in 2005. evidence against me, evidence for me, whatever. that is not what i get on a message board to do. 

Also, if you are incapable of writing a written summary of a news report you think was important or informative... that's pretty good evidence that you didn't understand it. lol

I shared a source, you refuse to watch it, seems to me you're incapable of handeling anything that goes against your opinion. And linking a video who has a wealth of accurate information using multiple sources and explains things better then I could means I somehow don't understand it?! Talk about a retarded argument 😂

[happycamper]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:48 AM, UtGrizfan said:

I shared a source, you refuse to watch it, seems to me you're incapable of handeling anything that goes against your opinion. And linking a video who has a wealth of accurate information using multiple sources and explains things better then I could means I somehow don't understand it?! Talk about a retarded argument 😂

once again, i'm not on here to watch youtube videos. I have two kids. I am besieged by requests to watch youtube videos. if I wanted to watch videos, I would not be on a message board.

also once again, if you are incapable of summarizing your own source... you do not understand your own argument lol

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:00 AM, happycamper said:

once again, i'm not on here to watch youtube videos. I have two kids. I am besieged by requests to watch youtube videos. if I wanted to watch videos, I would not be on a message board.

also once again, if you are incapable of summarizing your own source... you do not understand your own argument lol

And once again thank you for proving you're unwilling to view anything that may go against your pre-subscribed opinion merely for it being in audio and video format. No wonder you don't know what you're talking about 😂

[InnZoneU]

Nothing like a little pre-Thanksgiving Russian propaganda from the foreign policy experts on this forum.  LMFAO.

[AztecAlien]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:28 AM, UtGrizfan said:

And once again thank you for proving you're unwilling to view anything that may go against your pre-subscribed opinion merely for it being in audio and video format. No wonder you don't know what you're talking about 😂

It's what he does anytime someone pushes back. And evidently, he's never watched a video documentary either. Just 4 minute reads. Yeah, OK. Yet he has time to write 20 paragraph responses. 

Lot's of military strategist and foreign policy experts eating pre-Thanksgiving West propaganda around here. 

[happycamper]

On 11/27/2024 at 12:28 PM, UtGrizfan said:

And once again thank you for proving you're unwilling to view anything that may go against your pre-subscribed opinion merely for it being in audio and video format. No wonder you don't know what you're talking about 😂

My man you are either unwilling or unable to summarize a news report you think others should watch.

Why would I respect someone like that? Why would I bother to waste time on stuff they provide?

On 11/27/2024 at 12:56 PM, AztecAlien said:

It's what he does anytime someone pushes back. And evidently, he's never watched a video documentary either. Just 4 minute reads. Yeah, OK. Yet he has time to write 20 paragraph responses. 

Lot's of military strategist and foreign policy experts eating pre-Thanksgiving West propaganda around here. 

tfw you are so right wing that you become anti-western

[AztecAlien]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:11 AM, happycamper said:

My man you are either unwilling or unable to summarize a news report you think others should watch.

Why would I respect someone like that? Why would I bother to waste time on stuff they provide?

tfw you are so right wing that you become anti-western

Applesauce.