Biden's Gives Ukraine Green Light

[AztecAlien]

On 11/27/2024 at 4:46 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yes, I think Russia would have ended the war at several points when Ukraine had momentum and China was not happy in exchange for the recognition of their occupied territories and a grunted Ukraine would not join NATO.

Pretty much every side agrees the conflict will come to an end in the next 18 months in exchange for the same.  Why would Russia agree to that now as we expect when they have less incentive to do so but not back then.  That makes no sense.

Oh and the only country at fault for the war is Russia.  Full stop 

I agree with the majority of what you stated except your last take. And it's well documented why Russia invaded Georgia and Ukraine. But you're welcome to your opinion. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/27/2024 at 4:55 PM, AztecAlien said:

I agree with the majority of what you stated except your last take. And it's well documented why Russia invaded Georgia and Ukraine. But you're welcome to your opinion. 

One country illegally invaded another.

Seems cut and dry to me.

[AztecAlien]

On 11/27/2024 at 5:10 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

One country illegally invaded another.

Seems cut and dry to me.

Well, there are several links, including one from a world renowned liberal political science professor from the University of Chicago. I know you actually do like to read. Not sure why some are getting upset about the criticism of U.S. foreign policy blunders in Eastern Europe that lead to accusations of supporting Russia, or being a Putin apologist. If you think I support Russia, you are mistaken. There's more to it than Russia just invaded Ukraine. I shared that opinion based on what I have read when the war first broke out on the other board as well. I laughed at some who thought Ukraine was going to win. They did have a chance for negotiations that would have saved lives. Now where are we based on recent decisions by the U.S.? 

It seems like the same people have criticized the U.S. for their foreign policies that have led to other wars, including the Middle East. Why is it different here? 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/27/2024 at 5:25 PM, AztecAlien said:

Well, there are several links, including one from a world renowned liberal political science professor from the University of Chicago. I know you actually do like to read. Not sure why some are getting upset about the criticism of U.S. foreign policy blunders in Eastern Europe that lead to accusations of supporting Russia, being a Putin apologist. If you think I support Russia, you are mistaken. There's more to it than Russia just invaded Ukraine. 

It seems like the same people have criticized the U.S. for their foreign policies that have led to other wars, including the Middle East. Why is it different here? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I totally agree we should have handled the post cold war differently.  We made it a point to antagonize Russia.  Sure did.  It was dumb.  

But one country illegally invaded another causing so much death and destruction because they were tired of the soft power conflict.  That makes them wrong.

[AztecAlien]

On 11/27/2024 at 5:32 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Oh I totally agree we should have handled the post cold war differently.  We made it a point to antagonize Russia.  Sure did.  It was dumb.  

But one country illegally invaded another causing so much death and destruction because they were tired of the soft power conflict.  That makes them wrong.

I added to my post while you were responding. And I am not in total disagreement. However, there's more to it that some are not willing to accept because of propaganda. 

[RSF]

On 11/27/2024 at 2:10 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

Just for happycamper, here is a map of Russia, and its neighbors. 

Given your struggles with non-textual input, allow me to point out to you that the neighbors of Russia who aren't threatening to install new American military bases on Russia's door steps are NOT being invaded right now. Can you put two plus two together now?

Hint: the answer isn't 22.

How many of those belong to NATO?

 

Hint: it isn’t zero. 

[renoskier]

On 11/27/2024 at 4:25 PM, AztecAlien said:

Well, there are several links, including one from a world renowned liberal political science professor from the University of Chicago. I know you actually do like to read. Not sure why some are getting upset about the criticism of U.S. foreign policy blunders in Eastern Europe that lead to accusations of supporting Russia, or being a Putin apologist. If you think I support Russia, you are mistaken. There's more to it than Russia just invaded Ukraine. I shared that opinion based on what I have read when the war first broke out on the other board as well. I laughed at some who thought Ukraine was going to win. They did have a chance for negotiations that would have saved lives. Now where are we based on recent decisions by the U.S.? 

It seems like the same people have criticized the U.S. for their foreign policies that have led to other wars, including the Middle East. Why is it different here? 

 

alien, at the end of the day, who was the physical agressor?

 

[RSF]

On 11/27/2024 at 9:07 PM, renoskier said:

alien, at the end of the day, who was the physical agressor?

 

The Republic of Molossia…

[AztecAlien]

On 11/27/2024 at 8:07 PM, renoskier said:

alien, at the end of the day, who was the physical agressor?

 

Obviously Russia. But it's not a simple as some are making it out to be. 

Enjoy your Thanksgiving. 

[UtGrizfan]

Ukraine is now in danger of losing Velyka Novosilka in the Southern Donestk region:

Here's a link to a live map of Ukraine tracking the events happening in the war:

https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/25-july-at-zaporizhzhia-and-kherson-directions-russian-army

[InnZoneU]

On 11/27/2024 at 7:22 PM, RSF said:

The Republic of Molossia…

They're still entangled in a war with East Germany lol.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 11/26/2024 at 1:24 PM, CoachKenFTW said:

Ukraine could have avoided war altogether by simply not provoking it. The Euros are equally to blame.

You are making out Russia to be the victim in their invasion of Ukraine. They aren’t. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

Zelensky said today he is willing to end the war, acknowdging all occupied territory as being Russian, in exchange for NATO membership.

Glad he read my emails finally.

[mugtang]

On 11/29/2024 at 5:52 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Zelensky said today he is willing to end the war, acknowdging all occupied territory as being Russian, in exchange for NATO membership.

Glad he read my emails finally.

Seems like a good deal.  That'll prevent any future Russian aggression unless Putin wants to go to war with NATO.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 11/29/2024 at 7:27 PM, mugtang said:

Seems like a good deal.  That'll prevent any future Russian aggression unless Putin wants to go to war with NATO.

Hope it plays out that way.  I think it could have a year ago.  Less incentive for Russia now with so much momentum.

[UtGrizfan]

On 11/29/2024 at 6:40 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

You are making out Russia to be the victim in their invasion of Ukraine. They aren’t. 

It's also not as black as white as some are claiming. You can be against Russia invading Ukraine and acknowledge that NATO and Ukraine help create the situation. Both are not mutually exclusive

[SalinasSpartan]

On 11/29/2024 at 8:01 PM, UtGrizfan said:

It's also not as black as white as some are claiming. You can be against Russia invading Ukraine and acknowledge that NATO and Ukraine help create the situation. Both are not mutually exclusive

Nothing in any of my posts on this subject suggests I think this situation is “black and white”. 

[BroncoInferno]

Sadly, I think game theory would dictate that Russia has to bleed to the maximum extent possible. It’s easy to say from the warmth of my living room, but I think it’s the only thing that will curtail Russia’s imperialism and willingness to invade its neighbors. The longer this drags on and the higher the cost they have to pay, the less likely they will repeat and cause even more human suffering.

 Ideally, any spoils they collect would be Pyrrhic victories.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:29 PM, BroncoInferno said:

Sadly, I think game theory would dictate that Russia has to bleed to the maximum extent possible. It’s easy to say from the warmth of my living room, but I think it’s the only thing that will curtail Russia’s imperialism and willingness to invade its neighbors. The longer this drags on and the higher the cost they have to pay, the less likely they will repeat and cause even more human suffering.

 Ideally, any spoils they collect would be Pyrrhic victories.

Ukraine is bleeding far worse than Russia but fuckem, right?  Fuck the soldiers who overwhelmingly don't want to fight anymore.  Fuck the people in the territory Russia continues to gain.  Ukraine had their worst month, week and day of the war in November since the early days of the war.

[BroncoInferno]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:01 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Ukraine is bleeding far worse than Russia but fuckem, right?  Fuck the soldiers who overwhelmingly don't want to fight anymore.  Fuck the people in the territory Russia continues to gain.  Ukraine had their worst month, week and day of the war in November since the early days of the war.

I never said any of that. In fact I said the opposite. But yeah, war sucks.