Tone-deaf AWS CEO: Quit if you don't want to return to office

[retrofade]

One of Amazon's (AMZN.O), opens new tab top executives defended the new, controversial 5-day-per-week in-office policy on Thursday, saying those who do not support it can leave for another company.

Speaking at an all-hands meeting for AWS, unit CEO Matt Garman said nine out of 10 workers he has spoken with support the new policy, which takes effect in January, according to a transcript reviewed by Reuters.

Those who do not wish to work for Amazon in-office five days per week can quit, he suggested.

"If there are people who just don't work well in that environment and don't want to, that's okay, there are other companies around," said Garman.

"By the way, I don't mean that in a bad way," he said, adding "we want to be in an environment where we're working together."

"When we want to really, really innovate on interesting products, I have not seen an ability for us to do that when we're not in-person," said Garman.

The policy has upset many of Amazon's employees who say it wastes time with additional commuting and the benefits of working from the office are not supported by independent data.

Amazon has been enforcing a three-day in-office policy, but CEO Andy Jassy said last month the retailer would move to five days to "invent, collaborate and be connected."

Some employees who had not been previously compliant were told they were "voluntarily resigning" and were locked out of company systems.

Amazon, the world's second-largest private employer behind Walmart, has taken a harder line on returning to office than many of its technology peers such as Google, Meta and Microsoft who have two- to three-day in-office policies.

"I'm actually quite excited about this change," said Garman. "I know not everyone is," he said, noting it's too hard to accomplish the company's goals with only the mandatory current three days of in-office work.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-aws-ceo-quit-if-you-dont-want-return-office-2024-10-17/

[CV147]

I don't know.

If a business says employees have to come in to work, and the employees decide they won't do that, then how is it wrong for the business to then let those employees go?

Speaking as someone who has managed people in the office and at home, I believe people are much more productive in the office. That includes me. There's fewer distractions. There's more accountability. The office environment promotes good working relationships. It's much easier to go down the hall and talk to someone rather than trying to call/email and waiting for a response.

I know this is only anecdotal. But I agree with Amazon.

[RSF]

On 10/19/2024 at 10:42 AM, CV147 said:

I don't know.

If a business says employees have to come in to work, and the employees decide they won't do that, then how is it wrong for the business to then let those employees go?

Speaking as someone who has managed people in the office and at home, I believe people are much more productive in the office. That includes me. There's fewer distractions. There's more accountability. The office environment promotes good working relationships. It's much easier to go down the hall and talk to someone rather than trying to call/email and waiting for a response.

I know this is only anecdotal. But I agree with Amazon.

My group is spread across 3 continents. My boss and I are 500 miles apart.  Working in the office does nothing for me except cost me time and tolls.  What Amazon is doing is new era micromanaging.  If your employees are doing their job it shouldn’t matter where they are. And with Zoom and/or Teams I can talk to anybody, anytime. And as many as I want/need at 1 time. It’s ironic that a company built on technology is attempting to go back in time.  And I disagree that there are fewer distractions in the office. And I’m betting the AWS CEO didn’t ask his employees the ‘we’ included them. 
 

For many companies trying to move back to offices, they’re lying when they say it’s about working better. It’s about real estate economics. An empty building is not good for the balance sheet. 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 10/18/2024 at 9:24 AM, retrofade said:

One of Amazon's (AMZN.O), opens new tab top executives defended the new, controversial 5-day-per-week in-office policy on Thursday, saying those who do not support it can leave for another company.

Speaking at an all-hands meeting for AWS, unit CEO Matt Garman said nine out of 10 workers he has spoken with support the new policy, which takes effect in January, according to a transcript reviewed by Reuters.

Those who do not wish to work for Amazon in-office five days per week can quit, he suggested.

"If there are people who just don't work well in that environment and don't want to, that's okay, there are other companies around," said Garman.

"By the way, I don't mean that in a bad way," he said, adding "we want to be in an environment where we're working together."

"When we want to really, really innovate on interesting products, I have not seen an ability for us to do that when we're not in-person," said Garman.

The policy has upset many of Amazon's employees who say it wastes time with additional commuting and the benefits of working from the office are not supported by independent data.

Amazon has been enforcing a three-day in-office policy, but CEO Andy Jassy said last month the retailer would move to five days to "invent, collaborate and be connected."

Some employees who had not been previously compliant were told they were "voluntarily resigning" and were locked out of company systems.

Amazon, the world's second-largest private employer behind Walmart, has taken a harder line on returning to office than many of its technology peers such as Google, Meta and Microsoft who have two- to three-day in-office policies.

"I'm actually quite excited about this change," said Garman. "I know not everyone is," he said, noting it's too hard to accomplish the company's goals with only the mandatory current three days of in-office work.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-aws-ceo-quit-if-you-dont-want-return-office-2024-10-17/

I think part of this whole cracking the whip to get people back to office is just corps sitting on a shit load of office space that they can’t unload. 

[RSF]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:57 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I think part of this whole cracking the whip to get people back to office is just corps sitting on a shit load of office space that they can’t unload. 

Funny thing for us is we did unload ours - during the shutdown we gave up the lease on my building because they told us WFH was permanent. Which ended up not being the case as we went with 3 days a week - in a building on a tollway an additional 30 minutes away. I gave HR an earful….during a Teams meeting. Didn’t help but I felt better afterwards. 

[stanfordchef]

On 10/19/2024 at 12:57 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I think part of this whole cracking the whip to get people back to office is just corps sitting on a shit load of office space that they can’t unload. 

That and they can use it to cut staff too. 

[CV147]

On 10/19/2024 at 3:43 PM, RSF said:

My group is spread across 3 continents. My boss and I are 500 miles apart.  Working in the office does nothing for me except cost me time and tolls.  What Amazon is doing is new era micromanaging.  If your employees are doing their job it shouldn’t matter where they are. And with Zoom and/or Teams I can talk to anybody, anytime. And as many as I want/need at 1 time. It’s ironic that a company built on technology is attempting to go back in time.  And I disagree that there are fewer distractions in the office. And I’m betting the AWS CEO didn’t ask his employees the ‘we’ included them. 
 

For many companies trying to move back to offices, they’re lying when they say it’s about working better. It’s about real estate economics. An empty building is not good for the balance sheet. 

My sticking point is with the bolded. My experience is that employees work more efficiently and effectively in an office. As an employee you may disagree but as a manager I have seen a difference.

So, yeah, they can work from home, but they work better in an office.

As for distractions, when you dress up and go to work, you are more psychologically ready to perform the work. If you're in a bathrobe sitting on your couch, you're less in tune with the work to be performed.

Look up any number of studies about dressing up for work, and how it impacts productivity.

Studies analyzing productivity from home are as for now scant, but I believe it will show that productivity suffers.

[RSF]

On 10/19/2024 at 3:11 PM, CV147 said:

My sticking point is with the bolded. My experience is that employees work more efficiently and effectively in an office. As an employee you may disagree but as a manager I have seen a difference.

 

And I haven’t.  Been on both sides of the equation. 
 

On 10/19/2024 at 3:11 PM, CV147 said:

 

As for distractions, when you dress up and go to work, you are more psychologically ready to perform the work. If you're in a bathrobe sitting on your couch, you're less in tune with the work to be performed.

Look up any number of studies about dressing up for work, and how it impacts productivity.

 

lol.  Bullshit.  I haven’t dressed up for work in 30 years. And a couch?  You seem to have a really twisted idea of how people work at home.   Studies, done by consultants and hired by managers. And consultants are like pigeons- they swoop in, shit all over everything, and leave a mess to clean up. 
 

Good workers work well regardless the location. Bad ones don’t. Everything else is paralysis by analysis. 
 

Commuting turns an 8 hr day into a 10 hr day. And makes for cranky employees. 

[CV147]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:21 PM, RSF said:

And I haven’t.  Been on both sides of the equation. 
 

lol.  Bullshit.  I haven’t dressed up for work in 30 years. And a couch?  You seem to have a really twisted idea of how people work at home.   Studies, done by consultants and hired by managers. And consultants are like pigeons- they swoop in, shit all over everything, and leave a mess to clean up. 
 

Good workers work well regardless the location. Bad ones don’t. Everything else is paralysis by analysis. 
 

Commuting turns an 8 hr day into a 10 hr day. And makes for cranky employees. 

By "good workers" you mean self-starters. Some workers, I agree, will work fine from home. Some workers, however, are not self-starters.

Being productive from home isn't universal by any means. In my experience many work better at the office. We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

[tailingpermit]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:29 PM, CV147 said:

By "good workers" you mean self-starters. Some workers, I agree, will work fine from home. Some workers, however, are not self-starters.

Being productive from home isn't universal by any means. In my experience many work better at the office. We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

I agree, when you manage a Staples it’s important for your employees to be “in the office.”

[Orange]

On 10/19/2024 at 1:11 PM, CV147 said:

My sticking point is with the bolded. My experience is that employees work more efficiently and effectively in an office. As an employee you may disagree but as a manager I have seen a difference.

So, yeah, they can work from home, but they work better in an office.

As for distractions, when you dress up and go to work, you are more psychologically ready to perform the work. If you're in a bathrobe sitting on your couch, you're less in tune with the work to be performed.

Look up any number of studies about dressing up for work, and how it impacts productivity.

Studies analyzing productivity from home are as for now scant, but I believe it will show that productivity suffers.

This is bullshit.  

[Orange]

On 10/19/2024 at 1:11 PM, CV147 said:

My sticking point is with the bolded. My experience is that employees work more efficiently and effectively in an office. As an employee you may disagree but as a manager I have seen a difference.

So, yeah, they can work from home, but they work better in an office.

As for distractions, when you dress up and go to work, you are more psychologically ready to perform the work. If you're in a bathrobe sitting on your couch, you're less in tune with the work to be performed.

Look up any number of studies about dressing up for work, and how it impacts productivity.

Studies analyzing productivity from home are as for now scant, but I believe it will show that productivity suffers.

When you become a “manager” with your firm do they have some sort of company-mandated lobotomy?

[stanfordchef]

On 10/19/2024 at 3:23 PM, Orange said:

This is bullshit.  

i mean all you do is collect a welfare check so what would you know about working?

Q: how do you starve Orange?

A: Hide his food stamps under his workboots

[CV147]

On 10/19/2024 at 6:24 PM, Orange said:

When you become a “manager” with your firm do they have some sort of company-mandated lobotomy?

I'm talking from personal experience.

If you knew how I felt about my company you wouldn't say this.

[Orange]

On 10/19/2024 at 3:25 PM, CV147 said:

I'm talking from personal experience.

If you knew how I felt about my company you wouldn't say this.

If you knew the real data about WFH versus office bullshit you wouldn’t say what you said.  

[CV147]

On 10/19/2024 at 7:17 PM, Orange said:

If you knew the real data about WFH versus office bullshit you wouldn’t say what you said.  

You're talking about studies.

I'm talking about real experience.

Go out there and manage people and then get back to me.

It's so easy to stand on the sidelines and speculate, looking at studies. It's harder when you're wondering just what the hell your employees are actually doing when their productivity declines when they're working from home.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:21 PM, CV147 said:

You're talking about studies.

I'm talking about real experience.

Go out there and manage people and then get back to me.

It's so easy to stand on the sidelines and speculate, looking at studies. It's harder when you're wondering just what the hell your employees are actually doing when their productivity declines when they're working from home.

Someone else in this thread using their own “real experience” disagrees with you as well. They went out and managed people and got back to you, and think you’re full of shit.

[HR_poke]

On 10/19/2024 at 11:42 AM, CV147 said:

I don't know.

If a business says employees have to come in to work, and the employees decide they won't do that, then how is it wrong for the business to then let those employees go?

Speaking as someone who has managed people in the office and at home, I believe people are much more productive in the office. That includes me. There's fewer distractions. There's more accountability. The office environment promotes good working relationships. It's much easier to go down the hall and talk to someone rather than trying to call/email and waiting for a response.

I know this is only anecdotal. But I agree with Amazon.

I work remotely and travel back for a week once a month. Actually sitting at the gainesville airport now waiting to board.  This is purely anecdotal but Mondays are a complete waste for me my week back. I have everyone in the company talking to me for hours about how Florida is, the family, etc. I don't get much done. I also tend to only work 8 to 9 hours, but at home I'm easily working 10 or 11. My productivity at home is higher as I have less distractions, and actual time away from my pc than I do in the office.

[HR_poke]

On 10/19/2024 at 8:05 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

Someone else in this thread using their own “real experience” disagrees with you as well. They went out and managed people and got back to you, and think you’re full of shit.

I don't know that he's full of shit. I think his point lacks nuance. There are definitely employees that can't handle work from home.  We ran into it during covid. Drafters were taking 2 to 3 times as long to get measurable work done.  Our CEO was getting calls from clients saying PMs weren't returning calls. Everything I'd call our geodisist during work hours he was always out in his garden away from his desk.  This isn't true of everyone obviously. Just like every company perk there will be 10 to 15% of employees that abuse it.

[CPslograd]

On 10/19/2024 at 1:29 PM, CV147 said:

By "good workers" you mean self-starters. Some workers, I agree, will work fine from home. Some workers, however, are not self-starters.

Being productive from home isn't universal by any means. In my experience many work better at the office. We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

The other problem with office remote work is new hires dont learn from watching the veterans.  It’s definitely an issue.  Of course a highly competent experienced inside sales person can be just as effective working remotely, but the new hires don’t benefit from watching them