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east coast port strike

gordonsolie

By gordonsolie
in Politics

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bornontheblue Advanced Member

bornontheblue

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 9:14 AM, happycamper said:

uh, that automation gives a very small benefit to most and extremely localized pain to a few. overall the monetary value of the very small benefit is higher than the extremely localized pain. but not to the thousands of families it knocks down the socioeconomic ladder lol

You are forgetting basic economic principles. The people who employ these longshoreman don't do it so that families can have a good income, or so people can keep their place in the socioeconomic ladder. They pay them because the value they provide is  picking things up and moving it somewhere else. If they make make their own jobs irrelevant because automation suddenly is financially the better option then they have only themselves to blame. They need better leadership in their union who won't overplay their leverage. 

 

 

  • Haha 1
  • Idiot 1
bornontheblue Advanced Member

bornontheblue

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 9:18 AM, East Village Poltergeist said:

I think teachers get screwed by collective bargaining…but that’s a different topic for a different time lulz 

My wife is a teacher and the treasurer for her union chapter. Because I am an accountant I actually help her do a lot of the treasury work, lol. 

We have had lots of discussions about this. The teachers union has their back and will fight for them in many different types of circumstances beyond just compensation. In a politically charged environment teachers need that IMO. 

 

 

 

happycamper Advanced Member

happycamper

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 11:24 AM, bornontheblue said:

You are forgetting basic economic principles. The people who employ these longshoreman don't do it so that families can have a good income, or so people can keep their place in the socioeconomic ladder. They pay them because the value they provide is  picking things up and moving it somewhere else. If they make make their own jobs irrelevant because automation suddenly is financially the better option then they have only themselves to blame. They need better leadership in their union who won't overplay their leverage. 

 

 

dawg you didn't even know about diffuse benefit, localized pain. you love to talk about economics but are ignorant of some of the most well known concepts

i don't know how much it would cost to replace them with automation but i can just about guarantee that they can't be fully replaced lol

RSF Advanced Member

RSF

Posted
Posted

And yet one of the unions 2 major bargaining points is limiting automation.  They must think getting replaced is a big enough issue to strike about.

 

 

 

bornontheblue Advanced Member

bornontheblue

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 9:36 AM, happycamper said:

dawg you didn't even know about diffuse benefit, localized pain. you love to talk about economics but are ignorant of some of the most well known concepts

i don't know how much it would cost to replace them with automation but i can just about guarantee that they can't be fully replaced lol

Basic economic principles say compensation for labor has a close relationship with value provided. It is not a perfect relationship for various reasons, but close enough to justify switching from expensing labor to investing in fixed assets.  The monetary benefit will be transferred from people who can operate a crane to people who can design and implement automated industrial systems. 

 

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happycamper Advanced Member

happycamper

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 11:44 AM, bornontheblue said:

Basic economic principles say compensation for labor has a close relationship with value provided. It is not a perfect relationship for various reasons, but close enough to justify switching from expensing labor to investing in fixed assets.  The monetary benefit will be transferred from people who can operate a crane to people who can design and implement automated industrial systems. 

 

so the money goes from various docks across the east coast to san francisco, whose single biggest problems are "too many jobs" and "too much money"?

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bornontheblue Advanced Member

bornontheblue

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 11:05 AM, happycamper said:

so the money goes from various docks across the east coast to san francisco, whose single biggest problems are "too many jobs" and "too much money"?

Capital will seek out a return on investment , yes. 

InnZoneU Advanced Member

InnZoneU

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 10:05 AM, happycamper said:

so the money goes from various docks across the east coast to san francisco, whose single biggest problems are "too many jobs" and "too much money"?

I don't think I'd be taking a poster who thinks Laissez Faire and maximum corporate greed are the best models, seriously.   After all.  It all worked out so well before.

ridgeview2 Advanced Member

ridgeview2

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 7:58 AM, Joe from Wyo said:

 

IMG_0870.webp

He had to find work in the shipping business because he never had the makings of a varsity athlete.

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RSF Advanced Member

RSF

Posted
Posted

People are idiots.

 

 

 

Toilet paper shortages in stores across America are giving folks nightmarish reminders of the pandemic era. But the lack of toilet paper isn’t a direct result of a major port strike Tuesday. It’s because of panic buying.

Reports of shortages filled social media Tuesday, showing empty shelves where toilet paper and, to a lesser extent, paper towels were supposed to be.

“They cleaned out the toilet paper at my local Walmart in Virginia. Toilet paper hoarding 2.0!,” wrote one person in a post on X, along with a photo of empty shelves.

 

“Shelves at Costco & Target running low or out of paper towels in Monmouth County NJ,” posted another X user. “Seeing people buying TP & water too in reax to port strike. Costco employee told me they were sold out of TP/paper towels this am.”

But the strike at ports from Maine to Texas will have absolutely zero impact on the supply of these products.

The overwhelming majority — more than 90% by some estimates — of US toilet paper consumption comes from domestic factories. Most of the rest comes from Canada and Mexico, which means it most likely arrives by rail or truck, not ship.

The American Forest and Paper Association, the trade group representing paper manufacturers, expressed concerns about the impact that the port strike could have on its members. But it cited the risk to its exports to foreign markets being cut off by the strike. Not imports.

If anything, the strike could result in a glut of toilet paper. Not a shortage.

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tailingpermit Advanced Member

tailingpermit

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 7:44 PM, RSF said:

People are idiots.

 

 

 

Toilet paper shortages in stores across America are giving folks nightmarish reminders of the pandemic era. But the lack of toilet paper isn’t a direct result of a major port strike Tuesday. It’s because of panic buying.

Reports of shortages filled social media Tuesday, showing empty shelves where toilet paper and, to a lesser extent, paper towels were supposed to be.

“They cleaned out the toilet paper at my local Walmart in Virginia. Toilet paper hoarding 2.0!,” wrote one person in a post on X, along with a photo of empty shelves.

 

“Shelves at Costco & Target running low or out of paper towels in Monmouth County NJ,” posted another X user. “Seeing people buying TP & water too in reax to port strike. Costco employee told me they were sold out of TP/paper towels this am.”

But the strike at ports from Maine to Texas will have absolutely zero impact on the supply of these products.

The overwhelming majority — more than 90% by some estimates — of US toilet paper consumption comes from domestic factories. Most of the rest comes from Canada and Mexico, which means it most likely arrives by rail or truck, not ship.

The American Forest and Paper Association, the trade group representing paper manufacturers, expressed concerns about the impact that the port strike could have on its members. But it cited the risk to its exports to foreign markets being cut off by the strike. Not imports.

If anything, the strike could result in a glut of toilet paper. Not a shortage.

A month before Covid I saw a Chinese family buying two giant carts of toilet paper and cleaning supplies at a Chicago Costco. 
 

Should’ve known something was up.  

  • Haha 1
bornontheblue Advanced Member

bornontheblue

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2024 at 6:08 PM, Joe from Wyo said:

Good point. The head union guy is a Trump guy after all. 
 

https://www.newsweek.com/harold-daggett-salary-trump-connection-us-port-strike-1962260

 Going to put my conspiracy hat on for a  minute. Is this a ploy to have the economy hanging in the balance  and then right before the election Trump swoops in and “negotiates” a settlement to look like a hero. 

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