Spaztecs Posted Thursday at 01:45 PM Share Posted Thursday at 01:45 PM On 10/30/2024 at 5:00 PM, Jack said: Tarrifs are a mixed bag for the US consumer. Tarrifs do help protect US jobs and they target foreign govt subsidy. The more you regulate something, the less we have. The threat of a tarrif minimizes product dumping on us and discourages foreign production in the 1st place. The Chinese have a HUGE glut of ecars and hybrids. With no penanlty they would dump them here and destroy the industry. With any targeted US industry gone, they would be free to run the show. Its their model. Tariffs create inflation. Period. Since everything comes from China, even the raw materials and parts to assemble stuff in America, tariffs will cause the cost of American food to go up as well. Economics is not 1+1 = 2 as your Orange Economic expert claims it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaztecs Posted Thursday at 01:48 PM Share Posted Thursday at 01:48 PM On 10/30/2024 at 10:20 PM, stanfordchef said: not sure i could live on my salary with $9k less dollars each year lol The millionaires believe that. Trump's plan also grows the deficit Bigly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The San Diegan Posted Thursday at 03:38 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:38 PM On 10/31/2024 at 6:48 AM, Spaztecs said: The millionaires believe that. Trump's plan also grows the deficit Bigly Yep. Estimates for just how much range from $7 trillion on the low end to $15 trillion. And that's after adding $8.3 trillion in just four years - the most in history by a 1-term president - after inheriting the red hot economy he got from Obama. Compare that to the estimates $3.7 trillion Harris' economic plan is estimated to add to the debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoskier Posted Thursday at 03:45 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:45 PM On 10/31/2024 at 6:48 AM, Spaztecs said: The millionaires believe that. Trump's plan also grows the deficit Bigly nobody gives a shit about the deficit... live for today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted Thursday at 07:12 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 07:12 PM On 10/31/2024 at 7:45 AM, Spaztecs said: Tariffs create inflation. Period. Since everything comes from China, even the raw materials and parts to assemble stuff in America, tariffs will cause the cost of American food to go up as well. Economics is not 1+1 = 2 as your Orange Economic expert claims it to be. If china wants to dump a 1m cars on our market...what would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted Thursday at 07:27 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:27 PM On 10/31/2024 at 2:12 PM, Jack said: If china wants to dump a 1m cars on our market...what would you do? Most of the major automakers already have plants, joint ventures or wholly owned subsidiaries in China. All they've been sold here for over a decade. And there's already a tariff on them. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/automotive-industry/chinese-made-cars-in-us-market-a3786571662/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mano Posted Thursday at 09:46 PM Share Posted Thursday at 09:46 PM On 10/31/2024 at 1:12 PM, Jack said: If china wants to dump a 1m cars on our market...what would you do? There is a big difference between specific, targeted tariffs that address behavior by a bad actor or protect jobs in a single industry and blanket tariffs on all or a very broad range of imports. The fact that billionaires like Musk acknowledge the "short term pain" that will lead to a "sounder footing" leads me to think that the consequences of unemployment and inflation on American workers is acceptable to them, because inevitable job losses and decreased wages will be "better" for the big businesses because lower labor costs will lead to higher margins and the consumers will be footing the entire tax burden. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted Thursday at 10:47 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 10:47 PM On 10/31/2024 at 3:46 PM, Mano said: There is a big difference between specific, targeted tariffs that address behavior by a bad actor or protect jobs in a single industry and blanket tariffs on all or a very broad range of imports. The fact that billionaires like Musk acknowledge the "short term pain" that will lead to a "sounder footing" leads me to think that the consequences of unemployment and inflation on American workers is acceptable to them, because inevitable job losses and decreased wages will be "better" for the big businesses because lower labor costs will lead to higher margins and the consumers will be footing the entire tax burden. These tarrifs would be paid upfront by china....not directly by the consumer. If a US consumer chooses a Chinese car they would pay. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted Thursday at 10:51 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 10:51 PM On 10/31/2024 at 4:47 PM, Jack said: These tarrifs would be paid upfront by china....not directly by the consumer. If a US consumer chooses a Chinese car they would pay. You didn't answer my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonsolie Posted Thursday at 10:51 PM Share Posted Thursday at 10:51 PM On 10/31/2024 at 6:47 PM, Jack said: These tarrifs would be paid upfront by china....not directly by the consumer. If a US consumer chooses a Chinese car they would pay. The domestically made products would come at a higher price as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azgreg Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM Share Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM On 10/31/2024 at 3:47 PM, Jack said: These tarrifs would be paid upfront by china....not directly by the consumer. If a US consumer chooses a Chinese car they would pay. Tariffs are paid by the importer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted Thursday at 10:58 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 10:58 PM On 10/31/2024 at 4:51 PM, gordonsolie said: The domestically made products would come at a higher price as well. I don't favor tarrifs either, but what would you prefer, some indirect upward pressure on car prices or 1000s of unemployed? To tell these people they will be OK in the long run is an elitist view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted Thursday at 10:59 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 10:59 PM On 10/31/2024 at 4:56 PM, azgreg said: Tariffs are paid by the importer. And they are usually owned by??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonsolie Posted Thursday at 11:17 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:17 PM On 10/31/2024 at 6:58 PM, Jack said: I don't favor tarrifs either, but what would you prefer, some indirect upward pressure on car prices or 1000s of unemployed? To tell these people they will be OK in the long run is an elitist view. Lulz you obviously flunked macroeconomics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted Thursday at 11:22 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:22 PM On 10/31/2024 at 5:47 PM, Jack said: These tarrifs would be paid upfront by china....not directly by the consumer. If a US consumer chooses a Chinese car they would pay. lol…that’s not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted Thursday at 11:23 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:23 PM On 10/31/2024 at 5:59 PM, Jack said: And they are usually owned by??? Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonsolie Posted Thursday at 11:27 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:27 PM On 10/31/2024 at 6:58 PM, Jack said: I don't favor tarrifs either, but what would you prefer, some indirect upward pressure on car prices or 1000s of unemployed? To tell these people they will be OK in the long run is an elitist view. They will be better off in the long run. Propping up inefficient industry competitors with onerous tariffs is no way to run a country. People are going to pay higher prices under OJCs plan, no runaround it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineSummer Posted Thursday at 11:37 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:37 PM On 10/31/2024 at 1:12 PM, Jack said: If china wants to dump a 1m cars on our market...what would you do? I would thank Biden for stopping it: "The tariff rate on electric vehicles under Section 301 will increase from 25% to 100% in 2024." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azgreg Posted Thursday at 11:37 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:37 PM On 10/31/2024 at 3:59 PM, Jack said: And they are usually owned by??? The three largest importers in the US are Walmart, Target, and The Home Depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineSummer Posted Thursday at 11:41 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:41 PM On 10/31/2024 at 5:37 PM, AlpineSummer said: I would thank Biden for stopping it: "The tariff rate on electric vehicles under Section 301 will increase from 25% to 100% in 2024." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ Also re: China The tariff rate on lithium-ion EV batteries will increase from 7.5%% to 25% in 2024, while the tariff rate on lithium-ion non-EV batteries will increase from 7.5% to 25% in 2026. The tariff rate on battery parts will increase from 7.5% to 25% in 2024. The tariff rate on natural graphite and permanent magnets will increase from zero to 25% in 2026. The tariff rate for certain other critical minerals will increase from zero to 25% in 2024. The tariff rate on semiconductors will increase from 25% to 50% by 2025. The tariff rate on certain steel and aluminum products under Section 301 will increase from 0–7.5% to 25% in 2024. Jack should write it Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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