The venting thread

[Quack 12]

On 9/19/2024 at 4:42 PM, modestobulldog said:

That is weird, your quote of me wasn’t my quote at all, it was InnZoneU’s

That is bizarre.

[Quack 12]

On 9/22/2024 at 5:26 PM, Orange said:

No, they're absolutely not.  High-speed rail dominates Japan, Europe, etc.  Mass transport is the answer to our CO2 problem, not EVs.

You're not wrong, but few other countries built the sort of car culture the U.S, has simply because of the distances involved. In post-WWII America, the "American Dream" of living in a single family house with a car (or three) in the "safe and clean" suburbs was born, and it hasn't changed much in 70 years. EVs can be an effective answer if we can get ourselves off of coal and oil and gas electricity generation. But then there are the batteries to deal with.

[The San Diegan]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:40 AM, Orange said:

Why the fuck does our society require that cars dominate transportation?   Why can’t we prioritize biking and walking?  Do we LIKE insanely hot summers, Cat 5 hurricanes and rising seas, along with enormous parking lots and highways destroying quality of life in poor neighborhoods (and elsewhere)?   Why did we create this terrible fucking hellscape?  We know it can be done better.  Other places have shown us.  Holy shit.  A better world is possible.   
 

 

I'll try, and then await your inevitable and ideological diatribe in response.

First, we lacked the foresight to develop population centers that sufficiently integrated residential, commercial, and industrial infrastructure or sufficient mass transit systems. I think there are master-planned communities popping up all over the country, but it's difficult to incentivize behavioral change. 

Second, we Murcans like to parse our work life and our home life. Enter suburbia, which allowed us to do exactly that. We had the space to expand around our communities, and the post-war promise and definition of the American Dream as a house with a yard and a white picket fence was easily attainable. Over time, as suburban communities exploded on the outskirts of population centers, commuting became a necessity.

Third, automobiles were already a necessity in our society. Consider a population map for 1910 - logistics already made automobiles a valuable commodity. Horses trot at approx. 8 mph. The Model T could traverse rural roads at 40 mph. Also, cars were way cleaner in population centers than horses, which tended to leave giant piles of shit all over the place.

Lastly, by the time we had developed some sense of societal awareness about pollution (3rd quarter 20th C.), the auto industry had become "too big to fail." The saying "As GM goes, so goes the nation" originated during this time. So by the mid-late 20th C., it had become so deeply entrenched as an integral part of our economy that the interdependency was too deeply entailed to unwind.

Just my own $.02. 

[happycamper]

On 9/23/2024 at 5:22 PM, Quack 12 said:

You're not wrong, but few other countries built the sort of car culture the U.S, has simply because of the distances involved. In post-WWII America, the "American Dream" of living in a single family house with a car (or three) in the "safe and clean" suburbs was born, and it hasn't changed much in 70 years. EVs can be an effective answer if we can get ourselves off of coal and oil and gas electricity generation. But then there are the batteries to deal with.

it's changed pretty drastically in the last 15 years lol. the main prosperous drivers of the economy has radically shifted from the burbs to metros. that happened while all of our infrastructure, zoning, and planning is built for burbs instead of more dense cores, a big part of our current housing issues. 

[azgreg]

Getting a tooth implant this afternoon. Not looking forward to it.

 

[The Barber]

I hate fixing / maintaining sprinklers for the lawn and landscaping.

It sucks.

[azgreg]

On 9/24/2024 at 9:41 AM, The Barber said:

I hate fixing / maintaining sprinklers for the lawn and landscaping.

It sucks.

At my house in Phoenix I couldn't keep my dog from digging mine up.

 

[tailingpermit]

On 9/24/2024 at 12:41 PM, The Barber said:

I hate fixing / maintaining sprinklers for the lawn and landscaping.

It sucks.

Only had one issue with mine, our landscaping guy ran over a spigot that didn’t recess. Have the B-Hyve system that connects to my phone.  

[Supersix]

On 9/24/2024 at 9:26 AM, azgreg said:

Getting a tooth implant this afternoon. Not looking forward to it.

 

They aren't to bad how did it go?

[Orange]

On 9/23/2024 at 2:22 PM, Quack 12 said:

You're not wrong, but few other countries built the sort of car culture the U.S, has simply because of the distances involved. In post-WWII America, the "American Dream" of living in a single family house with a car (or three) in the "safe and clean" suburbs was born, and it hasn't changed much in 70 years. EVs can be an effective answer if we can get ourselves off of coal and oil and gas electricity generation. But then there are the batteries to deal with.

Europe has just as much land as the United States.   I don’t buy that as a limitation.   Seems more like an excuse from the ruralites. 
 

I think it mostly stems from the misguided “individualist” ethic we’ve created in America.   An ethic we need to kill.   

[Orange]

On 9/23/2024 at 3:19 PM, The San Diegan said:

I'll try, and then await your inevitable and ideological diatribe in response.

First, we lacked the foresight to develop population centers that sufficiently integrated residential, commercial, and industrial infrastructure or sufficient mass transit systems. I think there are master-planned communities popping up all over the country, but it's difficult to incentivize behavioral change. 

Second, we Murcans like to parse our work life and our home life. Enter suburbia, which allowed us to do exactly that. We had the space to expand around our communities, and the post-war promise and definition of the American Dream as a house with a yard and a white picket fence was easily attainable. Over time, as suburban communities exploded on the outskirts of population centers, commuting became a necessity.

Third, automobiles were already a necessity in our society. Consider a population map for 1910 - logistics already made automobiles a valuable commodity. Horses trot at approx. 8 mph. The Model T could traverse rural roads at 40 mph. Also, cars were way cleaner in population centers than horses, which tended to leave giant piles of shit all over the place.

Lastly, by the time we had developed some sense of societal awareness about pollution (3rd quarter 20th C.), the auto industry had become "too big to fail." The saying "As GM goes, so goes the nation" originated during this time. So by the mid-late 20th C., it had become so deeply entrenched as an integral part of our economy that the interdependency was too deeply entailed to unwind.

Just my own $.02. 

Not really sure I disagree with any of this.  I’d add that we settled the wide-open west within the past 100 years whereas Europe settled its vast geography over 1,000+ years, and they planned communities accordingly.   Our expansion coincided with the rise of automobiles and we’ve never done a thing to correct that, and invest in mass transit, high-speed rail, etc.  

 

I just don’t understand why we can’t correct that.  We’re the Apollo program country; the country that “tamed” the west, and now we whine about the mild economic discomfort that would come with shifting to a mass-transit economy.  
 

It will be what kills us. 

[azgreg]

On 9/24/2024 at 5:41 PM, Supersix said:

They aren't to bad how did it go?

They had me reschedule.

[Just_Chris]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:40 AM, Orange said:

Why the fuck does our society require that cars dominate transportation?   Why can’t we prioritize biking and walking?  Do we LIKE insanely hot summers, Cat 5 hurricanes and rising seas, along with enormous parking lots and highways destroying quality of life in poor neighborhoods (and elsewhere)?   Why did we create this terrible fucking hellscape?  We know it can be done better.  Other places have shown us.  Holy shit.  A better world is possible.   
 

 

You'd love Japan, I walk everywhere, I can take the train if I need to and I live far enough away from Tokyo I can generally get a seat and not stand the entire way in to the city. Unfortunately being the gaijin I'm also the one everyone looks at to give up that seat when an elderly person gets on and there are no seats. I like to believe I'm not an asshole so I always oblige with a Hai Dozo and smile 

I just saw this underground bike system they have in Amsterdam, I don't ride much but it looked amazing 

[Just_Chris]

On 9/24/2024 at 6:23 PM, Orange said:

Not really sure I disagree with any of this.  I’d add that we settled the wide-open west within the past 100 years whereas Europe settled its vast geography over 1,000+ years, and they planned communities accordingly.   Our expansion coincided with the rise of automobiles and we’ve never done a thing to correct that, and invest in mass transit, high-speed rail, etc.  

 

I just don’t understand why we can’t correct that.  We’re the Apollo program country; the country that “tamed” the west, and now we whine about the mild economic discomfort that would come with shifting to a mass-transit economy.  
 

It will be what kills us. 

I'm sure you know why that is... 

[Orange]

On 9/24/2024 at 6:52 PM, Just_Chris said:

I'm sure you know why that is... 

no money it it for the “correct” people.  (Ie capitalists)

[Just_Chris]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:13 PM, Orange said:

no money it it for the “correct” people.  (Ie capitalists)

I was gonna say about 30% of the country think it's socialist and don't understand how good rail service benefits them

You're also not wrong, good rail service is also bad for United, Delta, American, SW and the rest... 

Imagine being able to take the train from New Orleans to Oklahoma City and not have to pay $475 after paying for seats and bags and be cramped on a Delta Express flight with a 2 hour layover in Atlanta 

[Orange]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:20 PM, Just_Chris said:

I was gonna say about 30% of the country think it's socialist and don't understand how good rail service benefits them

You're also not wrong, good rail service is also bad for United, Delta, American, SW and the rest... 

Imagine being able to take the train from New Orleans to Oklahoma City and not have to pay $475 after paying for seats and bags and be cramped on a Delta Express flight with a 2 hour layover in Atlanta 

But what about freedumb?

[RSF]

On 9/24/2024 at 9:20 PM, Just_Chris said:

 

Imagine being able to take the train from New Orleans to Oklahoma City and not have to pay $475 after paying for seats and bags and be cramped on a Delta Express flight with a 2 hour layover in Atlanta 

[Orange]

On 9/25/2024 at 5:14 AM, RSF said:

I think the bigger concern is the insane CO2 cost of planes, and the relatively limited number of people you’re moving in exchange for that cost.  

[RSF]

On 9/25/2024 at 9:01 AM, Orange said:

I think the bigger concern is the insane CO2 cost of planes, and the relatively limited number of people you’re moving in exchange for that cost.  

You need to re-read what was quoted.

 

 

 

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