Today's mass shooting is in...........

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/4/2024 at 11:22 AM, Madmartigan said:

Gun control and healthcare- two topics almost everyone agrees are broken here, but two we can't seem to agree what to do anything about. 

Our culture is broken. What’s going to stop a kid from driving into a crowd of kids at school? It just hasn’t been romanticized in our culture. Yet. 

[retrofade]

The shooter was reportedly a 14 year old student who surrendered immediately. Of the four victims who lost their lives, two were adults and two were students. 

Nine other people were reportedly shot and are being treated for gunshot wounds, including two who were airlifted to a hospital. 

Another 30 are being reported as injured, but not by gunshots. 

[smltwnrckr]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:49 PM, sean327 said:

How many of you anti 2nd Amendment clowns are willing to stack up at your neighbor's doors? If you are not willing to do it yourself, then shut the hell up. 

 

I've long been against restrictions on individual rights on here, including being critical of anti-gun, knee-jerk reactions to these kinds of massacres. Rights make everyone less safe. That is something too many people are unwilling to deal with.  

But the gun nuts have really put the clown suits on lately, especially as they pertain to schools. People with straight faces say teachers should carry guns because we can't keep guns out the hands of nutty kids, but also say teachers should be prosecuted for putting books into kids hands. Sorry, but that is a completely asinine policy position. And it is the practical position of the American GOP right now. 

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:01 PM, Nevada Convert said:

Our culture is broken. What’s going to stop a kid from driving into a crowd of kids at school? It just hasn’t been romanticized in our culture. Yet. 

Yet they keep on picking up FUCKING GUNS...not knives... not driving into them.   

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 2:06 PM, sean327 said:

I appreciated your honest approach to this issue. I have a serious problem with the knee jerk idiots who have zero problem punishing law abiding gun owners. That's exactly what happens every time a new feel good gun law gets passed. 

"Knee jerk" would have been doing something in the first 10 years of the mass shooting epidemic.

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/4/2024 at 4:06 PM, smltwnrckr said:

I've long been against restrictions on individual rights on here, including being critical of anti-gun, knee-jerk reactions to these kinds of massacres. Rights make everyone less safe. That is something too many people are unwilling to deal with.  

But the gun nuts have really put the clown suits on lately, especially as they pertain to schools. People with straight faces say teachers should carry guns because we can't keep guns out the hands of nutty kids, but also say teachers should be prosecuted for putting books into kids hands. Sorry, but that is a completely asinine policy position. And it is the practical position of the American GOP right now. 

There are a lot of moderate to conservative folks that would love to go with some reasonable measures to improve things. The problem: people on the left that will not stop until all guns are banned. So the people center to right don't want to give an inch to prevent that from ever happening. That is the underlying problem, and has been for quite a while. How do we resolve that? That is the question. 

Another question: What do we do to prevent approximately 5,000 kids 1-19 from getting killed every year in auto accidents? 

 

 

 

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 1:51 PM, Madmartigan said:

I do struggle with this issue. I am 100% for the right to bear arms and think it's an important constitutionally protected right to prevent an authoritarian government from taking broad control. That said, I am not sure how far it extends or should extend- what weapons should we ban vs not ban and would it make a difference or not? The great majority of gun related deaths in the US are handguns and those are certainly not getting banned. 

The biggest threat we have of an authoritarian takeover is from the gun nuts.

Handguns and high capacity rifles should be banned.   Infantry soldiers don't carry handguns.   Deer rifles and shotguns will be as effective against a "tyrannical government" with f16s as the current allowed weapons... not very. 

[Nevada Convert]

On 9/4/2024 at 4:37 PM, Akkula said:

The biggest threat we have of an authoritarian takeover is from the gun nuts.

Handguns and high capacity rifles sold be banned.   Infantry soldiers don't carry handguns.   Deer rifles and shotguns wii be as effective against a "tyrannical government" with f16s as the current allowed weapons... not very. 

Dude, go buy a cheap island in the ocean somewhere and start your own communist country. You don't even live in the US anymore. Do you still have citizenshio and vote? 

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:34 PM, Nevada Convert said:

There are a lot of moderate to conservative folks that would love to go with some reasonable measures to improve things. The problem: people on the left that will not stop until all guns are banned. So the people center to right don't want to give an inch to prevent that from ever happening. That is the underlying problem, and has been for quite a while. How do we resolve that? That is the question. 

Then why haven't the "moderates" put forward legislation?  I am sure the liberals would have supported these "reasonable measure."

[sean327]

On 9/4/2024 at 2:34 PM, Nevada Convert said:

There are a lot of moderate to conservative folks that would love to go with some reasonable measures to improve things. The problem: people on the left that will not stop until all guns are banned. So the people center to right don't want to give an inch to prevent that from ever happening. That is the underlying problem, and has been for quite a while. How do we resolve that? That is the question. 

You can't, because there will never be an end to what they want. Every "sensible" gun law only punishes the law abiding citizen. There are hundreds of gun laws on the books, yet in these people's eyes it's not enough. The big lie is when they tell us with a straight face that nobody is coming for your guns. I know it's bullshit, and they know it's bullshit. 

[Madmartigan]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:37 PM, Akkula said:

The biggest threat we have of an authoritarian takeover is from the gun nuts.

Handguns and high capacity rifles should be banned.   Infantry soldiers don't carry handguns.   Deer rifles and shotguns wii be as effective against a "tyrannical government" with f16s as the current allowed weapons... not very. 

The F16 argument is a very disingenuous one. It’s equivalent in lack of critical thinking to the gun nuts on the right saying “well why take away high capacity magazines- the criminals will still find a way to kill people.” We had far better tech in Vietnam than the Vietcong. Hell even in the forming of America the Colonists were worse off for gear and technology. There are hundreds of examples throughout the course of history of a lesser armed populace overthrowing their governments. If there was ever a conflict between the Government and the US populace you can bet it wouldn’t be conventional. The fact that the leftists have this huge blind spot and don’t/can’t admit that democratic governments can still and do go authoritarian has always surprised me. As @smltwnrckrhas noted, all rights have negative trade offs. It’s up to us to decide the extent of negative we are willing to tolerate. 

[sean327]

On 9/4/2024 at 2:37 PM, Akkula said:

The biggest threat we have of an authoritarian takeover is from the gun nuts.

Handguns and high capacity rifles should be banned.   Infantry soldiers don't carry handguns.   Deer rifles and shotguns will be as effective against a "tyrannical government" with f16s as the current allowed weapons... not very. 

Infantry soldiers don't carry handguns?? Where do you get your information from? The current sidearm for the Army and Marine Corps is the SIG Sauer M18. It replaced the Beretta M9, which replaced the Colt 1911. And gun owners are not the biggest threat, it's Commies and vegans like yourself.

 

[UNLV2001]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:51 PM, Madmartigan said:

I do struggle with this issue. I am 100% for the right to bear arms and think it's an important constitutionally protected right to prevent an authoritarian government from taking broad control. That said, I am not sure how far it extends or should extend- what weapons should we ban vs not ban and would it make a difference or not? The great majority of gun related deaths in the US are handguns and those are certainly not getting banned. 

I'm fine with some guns for personal protection, hunting, sport shooting and the like................but this 1800 era thinking that your "right to bear arms" to counter government control is 19th century NRA propaganda

Maybe that was part of think thinking back when the average Joe had same arms as the state militia or military, but post civil war that era when the way of the Dodo Bird..............there's little a gaggle of guns nuts could do if the government really wanted to take them out despite how many guns & ammo they can stock up on

If they're smart they would run the guy or gal off the road who's on their way to Indian Springs NV, who's going to sit in a comfy chair & drone them into dNA particles

On 9/4/2024 at 1:42 PM, Slapdad said:

I agree. I own several guns, but I rarely shoot them, so it's not a big part of my life. If the government banned all guns tomorrow, it wouldn't affect my life one way or another with the caveat being that they are able to collect all the guns that are out there, which is where I part ways with the "ban guns" crowd. I honestly don't believe that it's possible to get the hands out of the bad guy's hands, which would leave everyone in a much worse situation than where we're at now. 

 

The GOP scare tactic of "they will come for your gun" is only for the dumbasses who think that it will, could or logistically happen ---- It's about as dumb as the LOSS saying he is going to do mass deportation -- No logistical idea how he's going to pull it off or the massive manpower & costs associated 

 

 

[Madmartigan]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:55 PM, UNLV2001 said:

I'm fine with some guns for personal protection, hunting, sport shooting and the like................but this 1800 era thinking that your "right to bear arms" to counter government control is 19th century NRA propaganda

Maybe that was part of think thinking back when the average Joe had same arms as the state militia or military, but post civil war that era when the way of the Dodo Bird..............there's little a gaggle of guns nuts could do if the government really wanted to take them out despite how many guns & ammo they can stock up on

If they're smart they would run the guy or gal off the road who's on their way to Indian Springs NV, who's going to sit in a comfy chair & drone them into dNA particles

The GOP scare tactic of "they will come for your gun" is only for the dumbasses who think that it will, could or logistically happen ---- It's about as dumb as the LOSS saying he is going to do mass deportation -- No logistical idea how he's going to pull it off or the massive manpower & costs associated 

 

 

Yeah no way the US government could ever come for the guns, mostly because there is zero chance most gun owners would allow it. Australia did it effectively, but the way both countries were founded is so different. 

[UNLV2001]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:04 PM, Madmartigan said:

Yeah no way the US government could ever come for the guns, mostly because there is zero chance most gun owners would allow it. Australia did it effectively, but the way both countries were founded is so different. 

Logistically it would be impossible, take decades & cost billions ..........just getting the space required to store 500 million guns would be a massive effort & that's just the storage / real estate part !! 

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:44 PM, Madmartigan said:

The F16 argument is a very disingenuous one. It’s equivalent in lack of critical thinking to the gun nuts on the right saying “well why take away high capacity magazines- the criminals will still find a way to kill people.” We had far better tech in Vietnam than the Vietcong. Hell even in the forming of America the Colonists were worse off for gear and technology. There are hundreds of examples throughout the course of history of a lesser armed populace overthrowing their governments. If there was ever a conflict between the Government and the US populace you can bet it wouldn’t be conventional. The fact that the leftists have this huge blind spot and don’t/can’t admit that democratic governments can still and do go authoritarian has always surprised me. As @smltwnrckrhas noted, all rights have negative trade offs. It’s up to us to decide the extent of negative we are willing to tolerate. 

My point exactly... you don't need handguns and large capacity rifles.   Deer rifles and shotguns are really the functional equivalent and all that is necessary to overthrow the government.   

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:50 PM, sean327 said:

Infantry soldiers don't carry handguns?? Where do you get your information from? The current sidearm for the Army and Marine Corps is the SIG Sauer M18. It replaced the Beretta M9, which replaced the Colt 1911. And gun owners are not the biggest threat, it's Commies and vegans like yourself.

 

Are all grunts issued a rifle and sidearm???  

It honestly doesn't really matter that much because grunts get automatic rifles and grenades too but we don't allow them for the general public. 

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 4:04 PM, Madmartigan said:

Yeah no way the US government could ever come for the guns, mostly because there is zero chance most gun owners would allow it. Australia did it effectively, but the way both countries were founded is so different. 

Hey Bro, if we could keep the gun nuts locked on their compounds never leaving to protect their guns the world would be a better place.  I say that is a win win.

[Akkula]

On 9/4/2024 at 4:08 PM, UNLV2001 said:

Logistically it would be impossible, take decades & cost billions ..........just getting the space required to store 500 million guns would be a massive effort & that's just the storage / real estate part !! 

It is easy...just do a buyback.  If people don't participate...fine....nobody is kicking in any doors.  But if that illegal gun ever falls into the wrong hands and is used in a crime the owner also gets a LONG prison sentence.

[smltwnrckr]

On 9/4/2024 at 2:34 PM, Nevada Convert said:

There are a lot of moderate to conservative folks that would love to go with some reasonable measures to improve things.

 

On 9/4/2024 at 2:34 PM, Nevada Convert said:

 So the people center to right don't want to give an inch to prevent that from ever happening. 

The two above statements are mutually exclusive. The people described in the bottom statement are by definition reactionaries, not moderates.