More Grifting from Trump

[stanfordchef]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:39 PM, retrofade said:

Still probably worth more than Trump's NFTs. 

absolutely. that goes without saying. the banana peel is at least tangible. I have no idea whatever happened to it but in theory you could bronze it or preserve it somehow. the trump nfts - for one i would argue it's a sale of unregistered securities but that's a whole other point...but in any case they have no real value and you could get it stolen by bulgarian hackers easy enough to add insult to injury

[Sactowndog]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:05 PM, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, mug ain’t going to vote for Trump. I don’t know if he’s going to vote for Kamala, but I’m quite certain he’s a never Trumper like I am. 

Notice I didn’t bother asking you.  Mug might as a real never Trumper actually vote for Kamala.   
 

You are a pretend never Trumper who will vote for him anyway.  

[Nevada Convert]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:31 PM, Sactowndog said:

Notice I didn’t bother asking you.  Mug might as a real never Trumper actually vote for Kamala.   
 

You are a pretend never Trumper who will vote for him anyway.  

Whatever makes you feel better. 

[mugtang]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:31 PM, Sactowndog said:

Notice I didn’t bother asking you.  Mug might as a real never Trumper actually vote for Kamala.   
 

You are a pretend never Trumper who will vote for him anyway.  

I haven’t decided if I’m voting for Kamala or a 3rd party yet.  I will not vote for Trump though. 

[bornontheblue]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:53 AM, mugtang said:

I haven’t decided if I’m voting for Kamala or a 3rd party yet.  I will not vote for Trump though. 

I entertained the idea of voting for Kamala but I just can't . Her economic policies are abysmal. 

I will not be voting for Trump either. 

 

[mugtang]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:54 AM, bornontheblue said:

I entertained the idea of voting for Kamala but I just can't . Her economic policies are abysmal. 

I will not be voting for Trump either. 

 

Her tax policy is ridiculous.  Taxing unrealized gains at 25% is a terrible proposition. Especially for people with only $100 million in wealth.  I don’t have an issue with a wealth tax. But it needs to be targeted at people with more than $1 billion in wealth. And 25% is too high.  Maybe 5% because that would limit the negative impact to people’s 401ks and investments. 

[stanfordchef]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:14 AM, mugtang said:

Her tax policy is ridiculous.  Taxing unrealized gains at 25% is a terrible proposition. Especially for people with only $100 million in wealth.  I don’t have an issue with a wealth tax. But it needs to be targeted at people with more than $1 billion in wealth. And 25% is too high.  Maybe 5% because that would limit the negative impact to people’s 401ks and investments. 

I feel like a wealth tax on unrealized gains will ultimately be unrealized indefinitely. Not to mention even if political capital was wasted on such things it’d probably be ruled unconstitutional given the Courts recent leanings.

it’s  just red meat to fire up the base I feel like. Like Trump does with his by kicking over caskets or shooting hogs from a helicopter or whatever he’s up to today. 

[bornontheblue]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:18 PM, Joe from Wyo said:

I feel like a wealth tax on unrealized gains will ultimately be unrealized indefinitely. Not to mention even if political capital was wasted on such things it’d probably be ruled unconstitutional given the Courts recent leanings.

it’s  just red meat to fire up the base I feel like. Like Trump does with his by kicking over caskets or shooting hogs from a helicopter or whatever he’s up to today. 

Same thing with her stupid idea of implementing price controls on grocery retailers. It's a just red meat to those who think retailers are the cause of inflation. 

Want a quick way to raise the value of everyone's home by $25,000, just give buyers a 25,000 cash advance for the down payment. 

 

[mugtang]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:18 AM, Joe from Wyo said:

I feel like a wealth tax on unrealized gains will ultimately be unrealized indefinitely. Not to mention even if political capital was wasted on such things it’d probably be ruled unconstitutional given the Courts recent leanings.

it’s  just red meat to fire up the base I feel like. Like Trump does with his by kicking over caskets or shooting hogs from a helicopter or whatever he’s up to today. 

That’s a good point. The 16th amendment gives them the power to tax income.  Not sure unrealized gains falls under that.  Although article 1 section 8 gives Congress the power to “lay tax and collect duties” so Congress has likely always had the authority to tax whatever they want.

At the end of the day I don’t think it’ll pass Congress anyway.

I was telling a friend this, there are other ways to tax the top .1% more without a wealth tax.  If your net wealth is greater than $1 billion you get no deductions at all.  You take a loss on a stock, too bad.  You want a deduction for rental expenses , eat shit.  You won capitalism (or were born into wealth).  You can pay tax on all of the gross income you receive.   I don’t have an issue with any of that. 

[mugtang]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:24 AM, bornontheblue said:

Same thing with her stupid idea of implementing price controls on grocery retailers. It's a just red meat to those who think retailers are the cause of inflation. 

Want a quick way to raise the value of everyone's home by $25,000, just give buyers a 25,000 cash advance for the down payment. 

 

Please. I’m looking to buy and sell. The house I’m going to buy is out of reach for most first time home buyers but my current home is perfect for a first time home buyer.  GIVE ME THAT GOVERNMENT CHEDDAR. 

[azgreg]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:24 AM, bornontheblue said:

Same thing with her stupid idea of implementing price controls on grocery retailers.

To be fair something like 37 or 38 states already have anti-gouging laws on the books including some deep red states.

 

[stanfordchef]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:26 AM, mugtang said:

That’s a good point. The 16th amendment gives them the power to tax income.  Not sure unrealized gains falls under that.  Although article 1 section 8 gives Congress the power to “lay tax and collect duties” so Congress has likely always had the authority to tax whatever they want.

At the end of the day I don’t think it’ll pass Congress anyway.

I was telling a friend this, there are other ways to tax the top .1% more without a wealth tax.  If your net wealth is greater than $1 billion you get no deductions at all.  You take a loss on a stock, too bad.  You want a deduction for rental expenses , eat shit.  You won capitalism (or were born into wealth).  You can pay tax on all of the gross income you receive.   I don’t have an issue with any of that. 

I like your idea. i think that’s a much easier and palatable version of a “wealth tax” that could actually pass congress. 

Frankly what I do like about her tax plan is the revocation of the SALT cap. That’ll save me greatly going forward if enacted. 

[Sactowndog]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:14 AM, mugtang said:

Her tax policy is ridiculous.  Taxing unrealized gains at 25% is a terrible proposition. Especially for people with only $100 million in wealth.  I don’t have an issue with a wealth tax. But it needs to be targeted at people with more than $1 billion in wealth. And 25% is too high.  Maybe 5% because that would limit the negative impact to people’s 401ks and investments. 

I don’t disagree.  It also has zero chance of becoming law as Dems will almost certainly lose the Senate and even if they don’t (which is a small chance) at least one Dem Senator will be bought off by hedge fund guys.

[bornontheblue]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:18 PM, Joe from Wyo said:

I feel like a wealth tax on unrealized gains will ultimately be unrealized indefinitely.

I have never understood how this could be implemented. 

LIke if an unrealized gain at 12/31/2023 is taxed, and it turns into an unrealized loss from the same investment at 12/31/2024 does the government issue a check to the investor. Now multiply that by the millions of individual investments held by ,millions of investors. 

Imagine next time the stock market tanks and the treasury is issuing billions in checks to billionaires, lol. 

[azgreg]

I'm no accountant so bear with me here. I know it's not apples to apples but just how different is a tax on unrealized gains to property tax?

 

[Sactowndog]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:26 AM, mugtang said:

That’s a good point. The 16th amendment gives them the power to tax income.  Not sure unrealized gains falls under that.  Although article 1 section 8 gives Congress the power to “lay tax and collect duties” so Congress has likely always had the authority to tax whatever they want.

At the end of the day I don’t think it’ll pass Congress anyway.

I was telling a friend this, there are other ways to tax the top .1% more without a wealth tax.  If your net wealth is greater than $1 billion you get no deductions at all.  You take a loss on a stock, too bad.  You want a deduction for rental expenses , eat shit.  You won capitalism (or were born into wealth).  You can pay tax on all of the gross income you receive.   I don’t have an issue with any of that. 

The best approach is to just eliminate the stepped up basis.  In an era of computer records the primary justification for it is no longer valid.  

I’m not super wealthy like Joe but even I have a whole account of primarily Growth stocks I never plan to sell and will just pass on to my kids.   Once I pass them on they get a stepped basis and throw off capital gains that will never get taxed.  Just ridiculous how slanted the tax code is for those who have wealth from which they don’t need income.   

[bornontheblue]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:28 PM, azgreg said:

To be fair something like 37 or 38 states already have anti-gouging laws on the books including some deep red states.

 

What grocers are doing is not price gouging. They have very minimal margins and make money by volume. That is why the big grocers are wanting to merge to increase volume. See Albertsons/Kroger right now. 

 

[stanfordchef]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:30 AM, bornontheblue said:

I have never understood how this could be implemented. 

LIke if an unrealized gain at 12/31/2023 is taxed, and it turns into an unrealized loss from the same investment at 12/31/2024 does the government issue a check to the investor. Now multiply that by the millions of individual investments held by ,millions of investors. 

Imagine next time the stock market tanks and the treasury is issuing billions in checks to billionaires, lol. 

It can’t. It’s impossible. Like there would be whole cottage industries sprouting up like the ERC mills to provide workarounds. 
 

it’s just a way to get the Bernie people on board and engaged. 

[renoskier]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:26 AM, mugtang said:

That’s a good point. The 16th amendment gives them the power to tax income.  Not sure unrealized gains falls under that.  Although article 1 section 8 gives Congress the power to “lay tax and collect duties” so Congress has likely always had the authority to tax whatever they want.

At the end of the day I don’t think it’ll pass Congress anyway.

I was telling a friend this, there are other ways to tax the top .1% more without a wealth tax.  If your net wealth is greater than $1 billion you get no deductions at all.  You take a loss on a stock, too bad.  You want a deduction for rental expenses , eat shit.  You won capitalism (or were born into wealth).  You can pay tax on all of the gross income you receive.   I don’t have an issue with any of that. 

how about taxing loans secured by unrealized gains?

[stanfordchef]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:31 AM, Sactowndog said:

The best approach is to just eliminate the stepped up basis.  In an era of computer records the primary justification for it is no longer valid.  

Closing the Angel of Death Loophole is absolutely a more plausible and possible way to do it too. Agreed.