Those pesky Russians

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:39 PM, Madmartigan said:

I don’t know that “being forced to use it” is relevant to this argument. Americans will consume news whether they’re forced to or not. There’s a MAJOR difference between being misinformed by fox news/MSNBC and a nefarious foreign government. And when the majority of an entire generation gets their news from an app- it’s not hyperbolic at all to compare it to Nazi Germany controlling print and radio because mediums of spreading information are always changing. I’d venture that most Americans get their news from an online source/app like TikTok.

I don't think it is a coincidence chaotic, illegal and violent memes go viral via TikTok in the US.  The knock out game.  Devious licks.  The choking challenge. Too many to name.  Now AI filtered slide shows that contribute to poor mental health outcomes.  

TikTok is Chinese psyops.  

[RSF]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:39 PM, Madmartigan said:

I’d venture that most Americans get their news from an online source/app like TikTok.

Negative.

 

TikTok is social media, not a news site.  There is a difference.  All the news organizations have their own apps.

 

[Madmartigan]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:31 PM, RSF said:

Negative.

 

TikTok is social media, not a news site.  There is a difference.  All the news organizations have their own apps.

 

TikTok is a social media site where many get their news, and often times it's fed to them even if they're looking for cat videos. A lot of the younger generation goes there for videos/content on current events. Even if not classified as a "news site or app" social media apps have outsized influence on how people view the world and interpret current events. TikTok, Reddit, Twitter/X, Meta, whatever the source- they have major influence on sentiment. The Hamas and Israel conflict is one such example of people being deliberately shown biased videos on TikTok to sway them to a certain point of view. The algo will feed them biased videos that people will likely watch even if they aren't looking to be informed on current events. 

[AlpineSummer]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:31 PM, RSF said:

Negative.

 

TikTok is social media, not a news site.  There is a difference.  All the news organizations have their own apps.

 

That's probably not the graphic/metrics that have real import on the matter.  That's a graph of preferences, and for all age groups.  You can find a plethora of data showing a large % of folks get some or much of their news info from social media including respondents who might state preferences for news sites. 

[RSF]

On 7/11/2024 at 2:39 PM, AlpineSummer said:

That's probably not the graphic/metrics that have real import on the matter.  That's a graph of preferences, and for all age groups.  You can find a plethora of data showing a large % of folks get some or much of their news info from social media.  

"% of US adults"  And I didnt include the age break down because Pew's survey lumps those into 'digital devices'. 

 

But You know what teenagers are doing with TikTok?  It aint looking for news.  But if you want to consider 12% 'large', have at it.

[AlpineSummer]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:42 PM, RSF said:

"% of US adults"  And I didnt include the age break down because Pew's survey lumps those into 'digital devices'. 

 

But You know what teenagers are doing with TikTok?  It aint looking for news.  But if you want to consider 12% 'large', have at it.

Like I said, there is a plethora of data.  This took a few seconds to find. Half of folks get news from social media often or sometimes.  I think you misinterpreted that 12% which was a preference not an exclusive metric.  I mean, I prefer news sites and specific ones, but I consume news on multiple platforms just like many.

[utenation]

@Madmartigan nice job man. That’s the way you throw the heater right down the middle and hear a big slap of the catcher’s mitt. 

[CV147]

This is anecdotal nonsense and fear mongering.

To say MAGA folks and kids are getting marching orders from TikTok is dumb. It's an app. I didn't think you all were so gullible to fall for the hysteria.

I literally asked for a study on TikTok's promotion and suppression of topics and I got more anecdotes.

[BSUTOP25]

On 7/11/2024 at 9:20 PM, CV147 said:

This is anecdotal nonsense and fear mongering.

To say MAGA folks and kids are getting marching orders from TikTok is dumb. It's an app. I didn't think you all were so gullible to fall for the hysteria.

I literally asked for a study on TikTok's promotion and suppression of topics and I got more anecdotes.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/26/1247347363/china-tiktok-national-security

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/NIC-Declassified-ICA-Foreign-Threats-to-the-2022-US-Elections-Dec2023.pdf

[CV147]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:37 PM, BSUTOP25 said:

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/26/1247347363/china-tiktok-national-security

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/NIC-Declassified-ICA-Foreign-Threats-to-the-2022-US-Elections-Dec2023.pdf

What is this?

I asked for a study.

All these things say Facebook and X are being infiltrated by Chinese and other countries just like TikTok. This furthers my point that this is protectionist nonsense and I hope TikTok prevails in court.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 7/11/2024 at 10:00 PM, CV147 said:

What is this?

I asked for a study.

All these things say Facebook and X are being infiltrated by Chinese and other countries just like TikTok. This furthers my point that this is protectionist nonsense and I hope TikTok prevails in court.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/explain-to-me-why-china-has-to-control-tiktok.html#:~:text=According to the experts conducting,outside China's most intense interests.

What you are asking for is impossible as the algorithm is not open.

It's just overwhelming circumstantial evidence 

[CV147]

[CV147]

On 7/12/2024 at 12:50 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/explain-to-me-why-china-has-to-control-tiktok.html#:~:text=According to the experts conducting,outside China's most intense interests.

What you are asking for is impossible as the algorithm is not open.

It's just overwhelming circumstantial evidence 

What the hell is that article on about? Why does Elon Musk have to control Tesla? Why doesn't the government just choose who it wants to run any company?

Does TikTok promote propaganda? Probably.

Is propaganda protected by the first amendment? Yes.

[Madmartigan]

On 7/11/2024 at 9:20 PM, CV147 said:

This is anecdotal nonsense and fear mongering.

To say MAGA folks and kids are getting marching orders from TikTok is dumb. It's an app. I didn't think you all were so gullible to fall for the hysteria.

I literally asked for a study on TikTok's promotion and suppression of topics and I got more anecdotes.

TikTok makes this kind of thing impossible to do. It's a closed algorithim and that data is not available to anyone. All we have is anecdotal evidence as a result. What you can look at is trending topics at certain points in time on other social media sites: compare IG, Reels or X Twitter at any given moment and they will have very similar trending topics even when accounting for demographic differences between the sites. When October 7th happened what you found is that anti-american, anti-democratic, anti-israel content trended on TikTok in multiples higher than what it does across other sites.

The CCP is using the platform to pit Americans against each other and promote messages aimed at causing chaos and weakening America. The gathering of data bit isn't as concerning to me as Xi's stated goal of using TikTok to "win the global majority." through use of propaganda platforms like TikTok. I think it's a big deal a genocidal, authoritarian government that is the largest threat to peace and democracy globally controls a major social media platform, you don't. That is fine. We agree to disagree. 

I would provide a few more examples, but it appears you have your mind made up on the matter. 

[aztech]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:37 PM, Madmartigan said:

TikTok is a social media site where many get their news, and often times it's fed to them even if they're looking for cat videos. A lot of the younger generation goes there for videos/content on current events. Even if not classified as a "news site or app" social media apps have outsized influence on how people view the world and interpret current events. TikTok, Reddit, Twitter/X, Meta, whatever the source- they have major influence on sentiment. The Hamas and Israel conflict is one such example of people being deliberately shown biased videos on TikTok to sway them to a certain point of view. The algo will feed them biased videos that people will likely watch even if they aren't looking to be informed on current events. 

I've never been on Tik Tok so I have a question.  Is it all monolithic thinking one way or the other, or are there posters who push back against liars?  In other words, much like any board with differing opinions?  What I do know is that mostly younger people use it and are not easily fooled since they've been using it a good part of their lives.  Before social media do you remember when we were in middle school and we knew the bullshitters from those who weren't?

[AlpineSummer]

On 7/12/2024 at 7:56 PM, aztech said:

I've never been on Tik Tok so I have a question.  Is it all monolithic thinking one way or the other, or are there posters who push back against liars?  In other words, much like any board with differing opinions?  What I do know is that mostly younger people use it and are not easily fooled since they've been using it a good part of their lives.  Before social media do you remember when we were in middle school and we knew the bullshitters from those who weren't?

It's a different than group interaction.  The phenomenon is real. It's not just China and Russia, but others.  Iran made the news this week.

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/press-releases-2024/3842-statement-from-director-of-national-intelligence-avril-haines-on-recent-iranian-influence-efforts

There are psychological principles at work and being exploited. The Illusory Truth Effect, bias reinforcements, etc. It's a problem and the problem is also us. 

[aztech]

On 7/12/2024 at 7:26 PM, AlpineSummer said:

It's a different than group interaction.  The phenomenon is real. It's not just China and Russia, but others.  Iran made the news this week.

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/press-releases-2024/3842-statement-from-director-of-national-intelligence-avril-haines-on-recent-iranian-influence-efforts

There are psychological principles at work and being exploited. The Illusory Truth Effect, bias reinforcements, etc. It's a problem and the problem is also us. 

Scary.

[AlpineSummer]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:21 PM, azgreg said:

 

 

Interview w/British psychologist who has been out front on the misinformation issue.  First part goes over some some basics including psychological principles and disinfo strategies. (Ex: fluency leading to the Illusory Truth Effect).  Second half includes the strategy of disinformation inoculation (I'm skeptical) among other structural issues in social media.