Those pesky Russians

[azgreg]

 

 

[FresnoFacts]

From the press release:
"Russia’s State-Run RT News Network Developed and Federal Security Service Operated the Artificial Intelligence-Enhanced Bot Farm to Disseminate Disinformation to Sow Discord in the United States and Elsewhere"

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-leads-efforts-among-federal-international-and-private-sector-partners

 

LOL, I know a couple of people who have considered RT.com a trustworthy news source. Sure as long as you believe FSB can be trusted.

[azgreg]

The the Iranians join the party.

 

[AlpineSummer]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:21 PM, azgreg said:

 

 

The WEF's 2024 Global Risks Report had "Misformation and Disinformation" at the top of their list for the following two year span.  I scanned piece on the RU bot farm.  AI going to make this a bigger problem for some time. 

[azgreg]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:29 PM, AlpineSummer said:

The WEF's 2024 Global Risks Report had "Misformation and Disinformation" at the top of their list for the following two year span.  I scanned piece on the RU bot farm.  AI going to make this a bigger problem for some time. 

The AI is just going to keep getting better. They won't always give everybody 6 finger on each hand.

 

[AlpineSummer]

On 7/9/2024 at 3:09 PM, azgreg said:

The AI is just going to keep getting better. They won't always give everybody 6 finger on each hand.

 

This going to accelerate smaller actors trying to game all kinds of things. 

[Madmartigan]

Now do one on Tik Tok. It’s shocking to me more people aren’t for banning Tik Tok. If Nazi Germany was in charge of the media for a significant chunk of America in WW2 we would’ve viewed that as a problem. The CCP has a strangle hold on the information millions of Americans view and can manipulate it at will. 

[CV147]

On 7/10/2024 at 10:06 AM, Madmartigan said:

Now do one on Tik Tok. It’s shocking to me more people aren’t for banning Tik Tok. If Nazi Germany was in charge of the media for a significant chunk of America in WW2 we would’ve viewed that as a problem. The CCP has a strangle hold on the information millions of Americans view and can manipulate it at will. 

It's funny to me that people/congressmen are outraged about the Chinese government doing this while their own government has admitted to doing the same.

"If any government is going to be stealing my information, it better be the AMERICAN government."

It's almost patriotic, if you will.

[Madmartigan]

On 7/10/2024 at 8:18 AM, CV147 said:

It's funny to me that people/congressmen are outraged about the Chinese government doing this while their own government has admitted to doing the same.

"If any government is going to be stealing my information, it better be the AMERICAN government."

It's almost patriotic, if you will.

It is a bit funny. For me: Outraged? no. Concerned? Very much so. Of course we do it. America is going to further its interests in whatever way possible. We are, not as yet, an authoritarian government that regularly commits human rights atrocities with stated ambitions to invade our neighbors. The CCP is a very bad actor and I'm glad we are starting to take action against it. 

[CV147]

On 7/10/2024 at 12:45 PM, Madmartigan said:

It is a bit funny. For me: Outraged? no. Concerned? Very much so. Of course we do it. America is going to further its interests in whatever way possible. We are, not as yet, an authoritarian government that regularly commits human rights atrocities with stated ambitions to invade our neighbors. The CCP is a very bad actor and I'm glad we are starting to take action against it. 

I'm opposed to the forced divestment of TikTok. If people are worried about their information being stolen by the Chinese, then they can delete the app off their phones. I don't have TikTok partly because I don't want the Chinese to have my data.

And, in my opinion it isn't a coincidence that this "security concern" coincides with removing a social media competitor. Once again big government protects its cronies. It's the same reason the fake whistleblower was trying to get regulations put on Facebook. The more regulations, the harder it is for a startup to compete.

[Madmartigan]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:24 AM, CV147 said:

I'm opposed to the forced divestment of TikTok. If people are worried about their information being stolen by the Chinese, then they can delete the app off their phones. I don't have TikTok partly because I don't want the Chinese to have my data.

And, in my opinion it isn't a coincidence that this "security concern" coincides with removing a social media competitor. Once again big government protects its cronies. It's the same reason the fake whistleblower was trying to get regulations put on Facebook. The more regulations, the harder it is for a startup to compete.

For me I think it's less about information stealing and more about a state run propaganda machine sharing messages with impressionable folks using the app. There are some very disturbing trends if you look at the messages that are promoted vs suppressed by the algo. Meta, IG and Youtube do this as well but aren't owned by a nefarious foreign power whose sole purpose it is to undermine and weaken America. 

Not sure about the protecting of Meta. Could be. 

[CV147]

On 7/10/2024 at 1:47 PM, Madmartigan said:

For me I think it's less about information stealing and more about a state run propaganda machine sharing messages with impressionable folks using the app. There are some very disturbing trends if you look at the messages that are promoted vs suppressed by the algo. Meta, IG and Youtube do this as well but aren't owned by a nefarious foreign power whose sole purpose it is to undermine and weaken America. 

Not sure about the protecting of Meta. Could be. 

What studies are you looking at for the messages promoted or suppressed?

[Madmartigan]

On 7/10/2024 at 12:07 PM, CV147 said:

What studies are you looking at for the messages promoted or suppressed?

Mostly from here, I'd have to dig deeper to see where/how the data is sourced, but seems like a reliable source: https://tim.blog/2024/05/10/matt-pottinger-transcript/ 

If you crtl + F and search "tiktok" you can find the relevant conversation. A salient quote from the interview- I may or may not have stolen some of my argument from him. 

" Look, I’m telling you this sincerely. As a former Marine, Deputy National Security Advisor, I was juggling the most serious national security threats facing the United States. I think TikTok is near the top. Near the top, okay? Think for a moment how preposterous it is that we are in a situation where the main platform is controlled by a hostile totalitarian government. The main platform by which a whole generation of Americans communicate and acquire their news. Remember TikTok, you say, “Oh, no, it’s just cat videos.” It’s actually a primary source of news for people under the age of 30. We would never have allowed the Nazis to control all of our newspapers and radio stations in the 1930s. And in fact, we passed laws under President FDR, Roosevelt, that made sure that you could not concentrate media ownership in the hands of any foreign power. So we have simply not updated those rules. Those are long standing, 100-year-old rules, almost, that are blessed by the Supreme Court, they’re sound with our First Amendment rights. Why is it that we’ve allowed the Chinese Communist Party to be the primary arbiter of what content trends and what content gets suppressed? It’s insane."

[CV147]

I still think it's overreach.

No one is forced to use TikTok. People who want to be misinformed can use TikTok or they can watch Fox News, right? It's not the government's business to control that.

Also I think it's hyperbolic to compare TikTok to Nazis controlling "all of our newspapers and radio stations in the 1930s." It's an app.

Government concerns over CCP control is also a bit hypocritical, especially since the Twitter Files showed how much the U.S. government was involved in censoring speech it disagreed with or labeled as "dangerous."

 

[RSF]

On 7/10/2024 at 1:47 PM, CV147 said:

I still think it's overreach.

No one is forced to use TikTok. People who want to be misinformed can use TikTok or they can watch Fox News, right? It's not the government's business to control that.

Also I think it's hyperbolic to compare TikTok to Nazis controlling "all of our newspapers and radio stations in the 1930s." It's an app.

Government concerns over CCP control is also a bit hypocritical, especially since the Twitter Files showed how much the U.S. government was involved in censoring speech it disagreed with or labeled as "dangerous."

 

I'm worried about the database of lip-syncing teenagers the Chinese now have.

[CV147]

On 7/10/2024 at 2:52 PM, RSF said:

I'm worried about the database of lip-syncing teenagers the Chinese now have.

Could you expound on that?

[BSUTOP25]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:24 AM, CV147 said:

I'm opposed to the forced divestment of TikTok. If people are worried about their information being stolen by the Chinese, then they can delete the app off their phones. I don't have TikTok partly because I don't want the Chinese to have my data.

And, in my opinion it isn't a coincidence that this "security concern" coincides with removing a social media competitor. Once again big government protects its cronies. It's the same reason the fake whistleblower was trying to get regulations put on Facebook. The more regulations, the harder it is for a startup to compete.

The biggest difference is that China doesn’t have a bunch of mouth breathing morons who can vote that believe the earth is flat, all vaccines make you gay, and public roads are communism. But hey, it is what it is.

[CV147]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:31 AM, BSUTOP25 said:

The biggest difference is that China doesn’t have a bunch of mouth breathing morons who can vote that believe the earth is flat, all vaccines make you gay, and public roads are communism. But hey, it is what it is.

I'm not sure what you're referencing. The biggest difference between what?

[BSUTOP25]

On 7/11/2024 at 7:25 AM, CV147 said:

I'm not sure what you're referencing. The biggest difference between what?

What governments use channels like Tik Tok for. I believe the Chinese do far more nefarious shit to the West with Tik Tok than we do to them with social media. And it’s partially because we have a bunch of dummies here with access to technology and the voting booth.

[Madmartigan]

On 7/10/2024 at 12:47 PM, CV147 said:

I still think it's overreach.

No one is forced to use TikTok. People who want to be misinformed can use TikTok or they can watch Fox News, right? It's not the government's business to control that.

Also I think it's hyperbolic to compare TikTok to Nazis controlling "all of our newspapers and radio stations in the 1930s." It's an app.

Government concerns over CCP control is also a bit hypocritical, especially since the Twitter Files showed how much the U.S. government was involved in censoring speech it disagreed with or labeled as "dangerous."

 

I don’t know that “being forced to use it” is relevant to this argument. Americans will consume news whether they’re forced to or not. There’s a MAJOR difference between being misinformed by fox news/MSNBC and a nefarious foreign government. And when the majority of an entire generation gets their news from an app- it’s not hyperbolic at all to compare it to Nazi Germany controlling print and radio because mediums of spreading information are always changing. I’d venture that most Americans get their news from an online source/app like TikTok.