KUGRDON Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Deone Bucannon was logged in as the #16 Pac 12 Player for 2013 after being left off the pre-season top 25 list. Connor Halliday was likewise left off the preseason list. Connor Halliday should a. not appear on the 2013 Top 25. b. rank between 11 and 15. c. rank between 6-10. d. rank between 1-5. I say between 11 and 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 i recall a post early in the season where you ripped halliday for not being a mike leach quarterback. at what point in the season did you change your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 I still don't think he is a prototypical Mike Leach QB. He's naturally more a long ball slinger than 70+% accuracy on short and medium balls. But he did learn a lot about touch this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickydlck Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Unless you think they are allowing all QB's on their list, I say no way he makes it at all. He's down at the bottom of the pile as P12 qb's go. Curious to hear your reasons for why he should be on, let alone higher than Mannion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I guess you're looking for more than, "Because he's a Cougar". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Unless you think they are allowing all QB's on their list, I say no way he makes it at all. He's down at the bottom of the pile as P12 qb's go. Curious to hear your reasons for why he should be on, let alone higher than Mannion. I actually missed seeing Mannion already appeared on the list. I now tend to agree with you that he won't be on the list. I don't, however agree that he is on the bottom of the pile. Passing efficiency rankings can be very misleading with regard to a qb with no o-line and no running game. I guess you're looking for more than, "Because he's a Cougar". Far too typical of your posts these days. No info, no opinion, all snark. I say that with the best intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I think it was pretty clear that my opinion is that you tend to be a Cougar homer, highlighting them above all -- even when it makes little sense, as with Buchanan above. Off the top of my head, I am not even sure Halliday makes the top 15 in the North -- although he probably makes the Top 25.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I think it was pretty clear that my opinion is that you tend to be a Cougar homer, highlighting them above all -- even when it makes little sense, as with Buchanan above. Off the top of my head, I am not even sure Halliday makes the top 15 in the North. There, an opinion of sorts that is on topic. Stupid and full of snark, but there. And Bucannon being first team All-American but not on the pre-season Top conference players is of note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickydlck Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 ok, still haven't heard the "why" he should even be considered. P.S. Lack of rushing game is a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Hail Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 ok, still haven't heard the "why" he should even be considered. P.S. Lack of rushing game is a choice. Yep. There's a reason they don't call it the run-raid offense, aside from the fact that it's a terrible name for an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBug708 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Guess at the postseason top 15 Mariota Hundley Zumwalt (Debatable at this point, I think he's out) Barr Sankey Carey Cooks Sutton Efo Who else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 With your help, I already concluded he should not be on list. So I take it your question is why shouldn't he be at the bottom of the pile. Lack of rushing game not Halliday's choice. Check out the rushing at Tech and compare with WSU. Average 56% more rushing yards at Tech overall, even more in better years. 57 yards rushing per game not Leach's choice. Halliday: 84% of WSU offense. 77% of WSU non-kicking offensive points. (76% and 71%, respectively for Mannion, one of the conferences best QB's with a significantly better running game, though not exemplary.) #2 yards, #2 TD. Predictability of offense dictated by personnel and lack of protection and red zone rushing offense forced aggressiveness resulting in high sacks and interceptions. A very reasonable argument could be made that there was not a single player in the conference who meant as much to his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBug708 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 BJ Denker and whoever Colorado threw out there last year are probably the only two QB's who wouldnt have made a bowl game at the helm of WSU. He's not last, but he's not an upper echelon PAC-12 QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'd say the only other QBs who would have put WSU in a bowl game last year were Mannion, Hundley, Price, and Mariota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Hail Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'd say the only other QBs who would have put WSU in a bowl game last year were Mannion, Hundley, Price, and Mariota. The only qbs that could have done what halliday did are NFL caliber qbs? Leach has used mediocre qbs with great success in the past and halliday is no exception. I think Kelly is a far better QB than holiday while Goff, Denker, and Wilson are at least as capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Kelly played for a much better team with a much better running game yet was sacked more, completed a lower percentage of his passes, threw for about a thousand fewer yards, fewer touchdowns, and didn't have a much greater efficiency rating. Hard to suggest Kelly is any more than comparable to Halliday and we know Halliday did take the Cougs to a bowl game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Hail Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Kelly was sacked more because they run the read option and the fact that he's a running QB. Leach's offense is designed around short passes so accuracy is pretty much moot. He threw for less yards because he had far fewer attempts and ultimately was the more efficient QB. ASU's offensive players are nothing special. WSU has far superior WR's to anything ASU has. You say Halliday was more accurate but 62.4% vs 62.9 is nothing to gloat about. Add in the fact that Kelly had more than 2 YPA more than Halliday and the point becomes laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Guess at the postseason top 15 Mariota Hundley Zumwalt (Debatable at this point, I think he's out) Barr Sankey Carey Cooks Sutton Efo Who else? Trent Murphy or Ben Gardner from Stanford's D and someone from their running game -- probably an OL over Gaffney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Comparable. Edge Halliday, he did it. In ASU's offense, with its defense and time spent playing ahead, Kelly should have been much more efficient than was Halliday and he wasn't. ASU had a much better receiver in Strong than anyone WSU had on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Hail Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Comparable. Edge Halliday, he did it. In ASU's offense, Kelly should have been much more efficient.He averages more than 2 yards per attempt than Halliday and had far fewer ints than him. Their efficiency was only in the same ball park because Kelly had a running game in the red zone and Halliday didn't and was able to rack up TDs. At least you've still got your "Halliday did it" argument working for you. Speaking of running games, WSU's surely would have been better under Kelly as the defense would have to worry about the RB as well as the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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